Counter Counter Argument -- "Ahnsahnghong Died"

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

Continuing the counter-counter-argument series...

Let's start with the argument:
Ahnsahnghong cannot be Christ because he died.

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from Truth of God the Mother, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

Prophecies about King David...

[Regarding Hosea 3:5, Ezekiel 34:11-24, and Ezekiel 37:24-27]

"Through this, God lets us know that He will come in the name of David. Ezekiel wrote this about 450 years after King David's death. Obviously, these prophecies are not about the physical King David but about the spiritual King David."

Yes, there are Messianic prophecies that relate to King David. And yes, because of the timing of these verses, we know that they are not referring to the actual King David because he had already passed long before. I'm not sure I would use the phrase "spiritual King David," but the verses do speak of the Messiah's characteristics (a shepherd and king) and lineage (from the family of David).

Jesus came as King David...

[Regarding Isaiah 9:6-7 and Luke 1:31-32]

"Through this prophecy, again, God lets us know He will be born in the human form as the spiritual King David...

"Jesus Christ received the throne of David. So it's important to understand the relationship between Jesus and King David."

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of reigning on "David's throne." There are multiple verses in the New Testament which show Him being called the "Son of David."

And here is where the WMSCOG takes a wrong turn, when they interpret what "reigning on David's throne" means.

The Relationship between Jesus and King David
30 Years Old...

"David was 30 years old when he became king. And Jesus was 30 years old when He was baptized and began His gospel ministry....

"Jesus could have been baptized at any other age. He was born to preach, then why did He wait until he turned 30 to start preaching? He could've easily started at a much younger age and accomplished much more....

"Christ Ahnsahnghong was born in 1918 and was baptized in 1948 at 30 years old."

They are saying that why else would Jesus wait until He was 30 to be baptized except to match David who became king at age 30. And since Ahnsahnghong was also 30 when he was baptized, then David = Jesus = Ahnsahnghong.

I have previously written about this "prophecy," but regarding the age of 30, the first thing to know is that Luke 3:23 says Jesus was "about thirty years of age." The presence of that word "about" means that the exact age of 30 was not important. He could have been 29, 30, 31, or even 32.

Beyond that, why would Jesus have waited until He was 30? That was the minimum age when priests were eligible to serve in the temple (Num. 4:1-3, 21-23, 29-30; and 1 Chron. 23:2-5). Waiting until the age of 30 would mean no one could argue about His age, that He was too young.

40 Year Reign...

"Additionally, King David reigned forty years. Then what does this mean about Jesus' gospel ministry?"

[The next quote is from the embedded video:]

"Jesus did the gospel work for 3 years and then ascended to heaven while King David reigned for 40 years. Then who will fulfill the gospel work of the remaining 37 years of King David?"

Again, I wrote about this in another article, but regarding 40 years, is there any verse that actually says the Messiah would reign (or preach) for 40 years? No. The prophecy was that Jesus would reign "from that time on and forever" (Isa. 9:7) and "His kingdom will never end" (Luke 1:31-33).

Plus, notice the verse that comes after the one often quoted by the WMSCOG:
"David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years." (2 Sam. 5:4-5)

David did not become king of "Israel" until he was about 37, because for the first 7 1/2 years he was only king over his own tribe of Judah. There was "war between the house of Saul and the house of David" about who would be the next king (2 Sam. 3:1).

Also, with the WMSCOG's teaching that everything is "copy and shadow" (Heb. 8:5), if it were truly a prophecy that the Messiah's preaching would be split in a way that equals 40 years like David's reign, that split would have been 7 years and 33 years, NOT 3 years and 37 years.

Ahnsahnghong preached for 37 years...

"At the end of his reign, Kind [sic] David passed away and was buried. In the same way, Christ Ahnsahnghong passed away in 1985 after preaching for 37 years. Christ Ahnsahnghong's death lets us know He is Second Coming Christ who fulfilled prophecy. ... Christ Ahnsahnghong even prophesied about His death in a religious magazine in Korea.... his death is proof that He is Second Coming Christ."

First, from the time Ahnsahnghong was baptized until he died, it was only just over 36 years. To stretch that to 37 years takes more than the usual rounding. And this is assuming he started preaching right away after his baptism.

And what of Ahnsahnghong "prophesying" about his own death? The quote from the article:

"'The Second Coming Jesus has to come to the earth in secret and pass away after preaching the gospel for 37 years...,' says the Church of God."

The article is dated 1981, about four years before Ahnsahnghong died in 1985. They calculate that the time from his baptism in 1948 to his death in 1985 is 37 years (1985-1948=37), so he must have been speaking about himself as the "Second Coming Jesus."

However, he was baptized in Dec. 1948 and died in Feb. 1985--again, just over 36 years. Now, if these dates referred to someone's life, born in Dec. 1948 and died in Feb. 1985, would you say that they lived for 37 years? No, you would say they lived 36 years.

It is the same for Ahnsahnghong. He preached 36 years, not 37 years.

I have shown why the "40 year reign" is not correctly interpreted as a prophecy, but let's say, hypothetically for a moment, that it is correct. When we look for the fulfillment of a prophecy, do we look for something that is close? No, even the WMSCOG agrees that prophecy is fulfilled exactly.

For example, Jesus was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2 and Matt. 2:4-6). If He had been born in Jerusalem, about 10 km away, would we say that He fulfilled the prophecy? No, close is not good enough.

Likewise, Ahnsahnghong's just-over-36 years is close, but not an exact fulfillment of his own "prophesy" of 37 years.

The True Meaning of David's Throne...

Let's go back to the relationship between Jesus and King David. What did the prophecies mean when they said the Messiah would sit on "David's throne"? It simply meant that the Messiah would be born into David's family line, which Jesus fulfilled both through Mary's line (Luke 3) and Joseph's line (Matthew 1).

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Counter Counter Argument -- "There is Only One God"

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

Continuing the counter-counter-argument series...

Let's start with the argument:
The Bible says there is only one God, like in 1 Timothy 2:5, so how can there be two--God the Father and God the Mother?

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from Truth of God the Mother, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

Think of Adam and Eve...

"Are Adam and Eve one person or two people? I think most people would agree and say they are two people. However, the Bible says they are one.

"Genesis 2:24 So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body.

"According to God, Adam and Eve are one person, one body. Does this mean that God doesn't know how to count? Of course God knows how to count! But in the eyes of God, Adam and Eve are one."

The response is that since the two people in a married couple are considered "one," so are "Father and Mother" two who can also be considered "one," and therefore there is no contradiction with the verses that insist there is only one God.

First, there is a difference in being numerically one and metaphorically one. My husband and I are numerically two people, though metaphorically you can say that we are "one" in love, teamwork, finances, etc. If I'm going to travel some place exciting, I want to share the experience with my husband because we are deeply connected as "one" couple, but the airline will make us buy two seats, and on a crowded flight, those two seats might not even be next to each other.

Will the airline allow me to purchase just one seat for the two of us because we are "one" in marriage? Absolutely not, even if we could fit in one seat. That's because we are numerically two people.

So how do you know if the verses about "one" God are speaking numerically or metaphorically? You look at the context. The context tells you that there is numerically one God.

Also, considering Gen. 2:24 (and in Mark 10:8), when it says, "the two will become one flesh," this is a euphemism. Can you guess what expression is substituted by this euphemism? Read 1 Corinthians 6:16, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'"

Yes, this phrase is talking about sex (please excuse my bluntness). Therefore, we can ask the WMSCOG, "If you insist that 'Father and Mother' are 'one' because in marriage 'two become one flesh,' then you are referring to their sexual union, right?"

Who sinned in the Garden of Eden?...

[Regarding Romans 5:12-17]
"Was it Adam who actually sinned in the Garden of Eden? People know that it was Eve who sinned first. But in these verses, it's Adam who gets blamed for sinning against God, even though God explicitly told both Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil....

"But because Adam and Eve are husband and wife, they are one body, the Bible regards them as one. And so only Adam is referenced here, almost as if Eve wasn't there. But we all know that she was. It's the same with God."

It is true that during the first sin incident with the fruit in the Garden of Eden, Eve sinned first, then Adam. It is also true that Adam takes the blame for the first sin, not only in Rom. 5:12-17 but also 1 Cor. 15:21-22. Is it because Adam and Eve are considered "one"? No.

For one thing, Eve does not escape blame (1 Tim. 2:13-14 and 2 Cor. 11:3). And both Adam and Eve received individual punishment (Gen. 3:16-19).

But why would the blame be given to Adam primarily? Here is a good explanation. Basically, Adam was created first and was put in authority. Adam had the role of leader, while Eve's role was as helper (Gen. 2:18). Adam failed to protect his wife and failed to admit to his sin when God asked him about it. Notice God spoke to Adam before speaking to Eve.

It's interesting that the writer of this counter-argument says God "explicitly told both Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree." Actually, God "explicitly" gave this command before Eve was created, so we only have record of Adam being told not to eat from the tree (Gen. 2:16-18). Eve knew about the command (Gen. 3:2-3), but we are not told specifically if she heard it directly from God or indirectly from Adam.

The example of the temple...

"Take the example of the temple. Most Christians know that the sanctuary has two parts -- the holy place and the most holy place. But to anyone standing outside the sanctuary, it looks like just one sanctuary. However, when you enter the temple, you can clearly see that there are two parts inside.

"I bring up the temple because, in the Bible, the temple represents God (John 2:21). So just as the temple looks like one from the outside, when in reality there are two parts inside, for many, God has existed as being only one. This shows our limited understanding of God, just as if we were standing on the outside of the temple."

The temple represented God's presence with His people. And it was in the Most Holy Place, where the Ark of the Covenant was kept, where God said His presence would appear in the cloud above the Ark (Lev. 16:2). If the WMSCOG's analogy were true, why were there not TWO Arks of the Covenant so that both rooms in the temple would have God's presence in this way? No, there was only ONE.

Also, if the temple represents God because Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days," speaking of His body (John 2:19-21), then what about 1 Cor. 6:19, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you...?" Does that mean we also have "two parts inside" since the temple represents us as well?

God refers to Himself in the plural...

"How would you explain Genesis 1:26 where God says, "Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us?" Here, God refers to Himself in the plural form, not singular. This is clear testimony that God is not only one, but two. Otherwise, if God were only one, the verse would read, 'Let me make human beings in my image, to be like me.'"

This show a lack of understanding of the Hebrew language. I've already written about the structure and use of the word "Elohim" (read all three parts).

Here's something else to think about. If there were two images of God--a male image and a female image, as the WMSCOG teaches--why doesn't Gen. 1:26 read, "Let us make man in our images..."?

Only one verse...

"Our faith cannot be based only on one verse. We cannot say that there is only one God the Father basing it solely on 1 Timothy....

"As true Christians who claim to believe in God and the Bible, we cannot deny God the Father and God the Mother who referred to Themselves as "us," even if in one verse, God is referred to as being only one."

There are MULTIPLE verses, not just one, that emphasize there is only ONE God. If you'd like to read them, start here or even here.  Do you want a list written by someone else? Try this one, or this one.

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Counter Counter Argument -- "How can Ahnsahnghong be the Christ?"

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

We can call this the counter-counter-argument series.

Let's start with the argument:
Many people, upon hearing the teaching that Ahnsahnghong is the "Second Coming Christ" say something like, "How can this be? He is just a Korean man! It's hard to believe!"

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from The True WMSCOG, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

It's just like 2000 years ago...

"Today, 2 billion people in the world easily believe that a 33 year old Jewish carpenter... is the Christ.... When Jesus appeared 2,000 years ago, the people at that time did not see the glory of God, but instead they saw a 'mere man'."

Yes, it is true that when Jesus walked the earth, many people did not believe in Him as the Christ (Messiah), but now we (Christians) believe in Him. Many do not believe in Ahnsahnghong as the "Second Coming Christ," but that has no bearing on whether he actually is or not.

There are numerous people in the world who have claimed to be the Christ. They could say the same thing, "It's like 2000 years ago! People did not believe Jesus then, just like they don't believe me today!" That doesn't mean anything.

But let's look beyond that because their point is that is was possible for people (like the disciples) to know that Jesus was the Christ. They could know because of the Old Testament prophecies and Jesus's teachings.

Apply the same standard...

"Now, the reason I believe that Christ Ahnsahnghong is the second coming Christ, is based on the standards by which the disciples were able to recognize Jesus at His first coming.
1. Christ Ahnsahnghong fulfilled the prophecies of the second coming
2. Christ Ahnsahnghong taught the words of eternal life"

1. The Prophecies
This is a circular argument because the "prophecies" that the WMSCOG use are verses that they themselves interpret in such a way to fit Ahnsahnghong. You will not find these "prophecies" from other established and well-regarded Bible scholars.

I've written extensively about these "prophecies," but please let me know if you think there's one I've missed or need to give more attention. You can find these posts on my index page. In short, the "prophecies" do not work.

2. The Teachings
Ahnsahnghong's teachings are flawed, which shows that he is not God. I've written multiple articles about different problems in WMSCOG doctrine (see the index), not to mention this list of mistakes.

But when the WMSCOG says Ahnsahnghong "taught the words of eternal life," they really mean that he "restored the Passover." This is also incorrect because a) the Passover did not "disappear from the world" or need to be restored, and b) it's not the act of eating a bit of bread and drinking a bit of wine that saves us.

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Unanswered Questions for WMSCOG Members

As another year comes to a close and I reflect back, I recall a World Mission Society Church of God member who asked me to make a list of questions I thought the WMSCOG had "failed to answer or ran away from."

Unfortunately, I have not yet heard back from this person, and these questions remain.

Are there any members who would like to respond? I really would like to know how the WMSCOG explains these issues. Are there any acceptable answers? If so, please share as it will only help people understand the WMSCOG better.

Here are five of my "unanswered questions"...

1. The WMSCOG teaches that everyone who takes the Passover with them will be protected from disasters/plagues and will not die (source and example). Ahnsahnghong taught that only a literal 144,000 will go to heaven alive (see chapter 6 in The Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life). There are more than 2 million WMSCOG members who have taken the Passover and are supposedly protected from death. What will happen to all the people who will not die (because they took the Passover), but also will not go to heaven alive (because they are not part of the 144,000)?

2. Why does the WMSCOG sometimes keep the 7th month feasts in the 8th month? Click here for a detailed chart. Please do not answer that it is because of leap years. That is not a valid reason. In the sacred calendar, when leap months are required, they are added at the end of the year to keep the integrity of the 7th month feasts. There must be a different answer.

3. In their teaching about the Antichrist, the WMSCOG makes statements about 10 kingdoms that came out of the Roman Empire, 3 of which were destroyed by the Papacy. They also claim the Ostrogoths were destroyed in AD 538. Why does this not match up with the historical record? Click here for details.

4. In Rev. 5 and 6, the "Lamb" opens the scroll with the seven seals. The WMSCOG teaches that this is Ahnsahnghong revealing the Bible. In order to fully open the scroll, all seven seals must be opened. I've heard the WMSCOG explain that the 6th seal was World War II. What were the historical fulfillments of the other six seals? Click here for more info.

5. Regarding Joseph's dream in Gen. 37 involving the sun and the moon and the stars, the WMSCOG teaches that the sun represents "Father God" and the moon represents "Mother God" (source). In the dream, the sun and the moon are bowing to Joseph. Who does Joseph represent, and why are "Father and Mother" bowing to him?

Summary of WMSCOG points -- Responding to comments

Thank you, everyone, for sending your comments.  I regret that because of various reasons it's not practical for me to post them all, but I do read them all.

This one from Anonymous (a popular name around here) gave such a concise summary of what I often hear from World Mission Society Church of God members, I thought it deserved a point by point response.  I hope its author returns to continue the conversation.

I haven't edited anything out of the comment, just corrected a few spelling mistakes...

On April 21, 2014, Anonymous wrote:

Everything on this site is false. 

I hope that means you've read everything on this site. Otherwise you couldn't say such a thing with certainty.  :)  I suggest you start here, if you haven't already.

For one, if God were to come IN THE FLESH as the bible clearly and jesus said HE WOULD a second time.. then as a man in the flesh, HE HAS TO GO THROUGH A PHYSICAL DEATH AGAIN! Doesn't mean that SPIRITUALLY he's going to die! Two DIFFERENT deaths! 

Yes, Jesus said He would return, but there is no reason to assume, as you have, that it means He must be born again as a baby, grow up, and die.  He was bodily resurrected.  That means His body did not decay.  That means He does not need a new body to be born into.  He does NOT have to go through a physical death again.

Two, Jesus said that when he came again that he would also bear a NEW NAME. It's the same concept now as then! When jesus was here, it had already been prophesied that God would come in the flesh as a man and would bear a new name. 

All of God's names in the Bible describe His character in one way or another.  Even the name Jesus means "the Lord saves."  Any 'new name' of Jesus is going to describe His character in a way that hasn't yet been done.  Do you know what the name "Ahn Sahng Hong" means?

And by the way, please direct me to the Old Testament prophecy that tells that God would "bear a new name" when He came in the flesh.  That one's not jumping out at me at the moment.

Who were the only people to recognize Jesus?? His disciples! How? Not from miracles, but BIBLE PROPHECY! Only God can fulfill His own prophecy!! 

By 'disciples' you must mean all of those who followed Him (there were more than just the 12 apostles).  But take a look at how they came to follow Jesus.  For example, read John 1:29-51 to see how John the Baptist, James, John, Andrew, Peter, Philip, and Nathanael recognized Jesus.  Bible prophecy was not the first reason.  Prophecy confirmed it later for them (which it should for us also), but your statement seems a bit misleading.

It predicted through scripture where he'd come again which was south korea. 

No, the WMSCOG interprets the scripture to say that he will be born as a baby in Korea, and then they show you that Ahnsahnghong fulfills that interpretation.  It's a self-fulfilling circle.  Read more about the "from the east" prophecy here, here, and here.

He fulfilled the remaining years to preach the gospel which JESUS DIDNT FULFILL! It was supposed to had been 40 years! Jesus preached 3 before he was crucified! Ahn Sahng Hong fulfilled ALL of the prophesies on second coming christ and preached the remaining 37 years!! 

No, this is another self-fulfilling prophecy.  The 40 years is the WMSCOG's own interpretation and does not hold up to examination.  Read more about it here, here, and here.

And just like jesus never proclaimed to be god, neither did he!! 

Yes, Jesus did proclaim that He is God.  His saying, "I am God," may not be recorded, but what he did say made it clear enough to the people around Him.  Read John 10:30-33; 8:58-59.

He wanted us to recognize him through his word! Its a test of our faith and belief in his PROPHECIES! The bible is a literal blue map [blueprint?] on how to receive our salvation and recognize christ in the flesh and that's how you recognize the true christs from the false people CLAIMING to be him in the last days!

Yes, you are definitely right that we must be able to recognize false christs in these last days, and that the Bible will help us do that.  It's very important not to worship a false christ, isn't it?  Please use the Bible, the historical records, and common logic to help you to not fall in that trap.

Clearly whoever made this site was SPIRITUALLY blind!! 

We could argue back and forth about who is spiritually blind, but let's stick to looking at the facts we can find instead. :)

I read about this church before really going and decided to see what's so bad and false, but have found nothing but truth! They teach SCRIPTURE AND PROPHECY RIGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE IN FRONT OF YOU as you read yourself. 

I have studied with them in person, and I have to say that at first it seems impressive.  BUT that is only superficial.  It doesn't hold up to examination, and have you tried to correct them or gave them an alternate (valid) interpretation?  Have you done some research and gone back to tell them where there is a mistake? 

If you do, then like me, you will likely be accused of not believing the Bible (by which they mean not believing in their interpretation), or accused of not believing God (by which they mean not believing them).  That could be very intimidating to the average person.

If you went and tested the waters you'd see! No false person could make this up and use god's words to glorify himself because the bible would contradict their words. HOWEVER, nothing I've learned can contradict itself!

Yes, both the Bible and the historical record contradict the WMSCOG.  They even contradict themselves sometimes.  Please read my summary of key verses, summary of internal evidence, and summary of mistakes.

Scripture BACKS UP OTHER SCRIPTURES THEN SO DOES HISTORY! 

I'll point out these contradictions in particular...

History does not back up the WMSCOG.  Please read about the historical mistakes in their Antichrist doctrine.

And Scripture does not back up the WMSCOG, which is especially clear when you look at their feast calendar.  Did you know that if you kept the fall feasts with the WMSCOG last October (2013) you kept them in the 8th month instead of the 7th month?

I am glad that you visited my website and took the time to comment.  I hope to hear back from you again.

Another ex-member of the WMSCOG speaks out

Last week, Steven Hassan released a video of Ron Ramos, a 12-year former World Mission Society Church of God missionary, sharing his experience.

Yesterday Diane Sims' video was released.  Diane, a former deaconess, was with the WMSCOG for 9 years.  It's long, but I hope you will be able to watch all the way to the end.  Go to http://vimeo.com/58850933 to watch, or click the video below.  (Description below the video is from Steven Hassan on Vimeo.)

Diane Sims, ex-deaconess WMSCOG filmed February, 2013 from Steven A Hassan on Vimeo.
Ex-deaconess, Diane Sims, involved for 9 years in the World Mission Society Church of God (WSMCOG) sits down with Steve Hassan to discuss her experiences. Diane and her husband, Jeff Sims have left the group and she discusses in great detail many of her experiences. She and her husband were "fruits" of Ron Ramos and he was their mentor while they were in.

Breaking News! Ex-member of WMSCOG speaks out on video

I don't have a lot of time right now, but this was released today, and I want to make sure you all know about it...

An ex-missionary of the WMSCOG, who was with the church for 12 years has spoken out about the World Mission Society Church of God with Steve Hassan.  Go to http://vimeo.com/58659859 to watch, or click the video below.  (Description below the video is from Steven Hassan on Vimeo.)
World Mission Society Church of God exposed: Ex 12 year Missionary Ron Ramos and Steve Hassan from Steven A Hassan on Vimeo.
An apocalyptic group that claims that Mother God is living in Korea. It is relentlessly recruiting new members who are almost instantly baptized. Former members say that they believe the Catholic Church is the anti-christ and that all churches that worship on Sunday are satanic. The group is accused of breaking up marriages and families, encouraging members to drop out of school and abandon their life goals. Also that they break up families.
Children in the group are viewed as a hindrance. Some former members have claimed they were encouraged to have abortions by leaders.
Ron Ramos was the first American installed as a deacon and was made a Missionary in 2005. He went to Korea three times and was an intricate part of the recruitment process in the United States. He and his wife decided to leave in 2011 due to inaccuracies in doctrine, lies that were uncovered, and the growing realization that the WMSCOG is destructive.

Reader Responses to the Conversation with Cyrus

Cyrus (a World Mission Society Church of God member) and I have been having a very interesting conversation for the past several months.  You can read it in the comment section of this post: Conversation with Cyrus, a WMSCOG member.

Although I have limited the conversation to Cyrus and myself, I have been pleased to hear from readers who wish to chime in and thought you all would also like to hear what others have been saying.

Anonymous wrote on October 23, 2012:

"Genny
Very good comments about objective and subjective. This make pretty clear what these people really want to do with others person.
Pls keep it up. You are doing an excellent job.
God will keep you in the right way"

Thanks for the encouragement. :)  This was when we were talking about evidence in favor of Ahnsahnghong and the WMSCOG, and the need for objective (factual, provable) evidence rather than subjective (based on opinion and interpretation) evidence.

"Andi" wrote on November 8, 2012:

"Aw..God the mother is the wife of Jesus? Sounds like incest to me. Surely, the "bride" refers to Jerusalem, a place, not a particular person. Cyrus, you should attend your english 101 class. "

Thanks for your input Andi.  The idea of whether this is incest ("God the Mother" also being the Bride of Jesus) has been debated in the forum at examiningthewmscog.com.  And in Ahnsahnghong's books He repeatedly describes the Heavenly Jerusalem as a place, not a person.  But honestly I think Cyrus' English and writing skills are great, so I'm not sure where your last line came from.

"Daniel" wrote on November 16, 2012:

"Hi Cyrus,

My name is Daniel... I have read through this whole discussion and I am a little curious about one thing. It's something you said in your last post.

"There are more prophecies you havent listed there in April 2010 that point to the founder of our temple, Christ Ahnsahnghong. The bible is so vast. But if I gave them to you, would you look for a way to disprove them? Maybe I'll let them stay within the church. There are quite a bit missing. Christ Ahnsahnghong said there is a treasure hidden for ages. So let it be for our church members."

If this man is truly the second coming of Jesus Christ, then why would he want his prophecies to remain a secret? When Jesus came the first time, He repeatedly claimed to be the Messiah and God by quoting Old Testament prophecies. His followers pointed out many more (Isaiah 53, Isaiah 9:6, Daniel 7, Psalm 22, Isaiah 52, Hosea 11:1, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5, Zechariah 9:9, Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 2, Psalm 110, Joel 2, etc.)

None of these prophecies were "hidden". They were actually trumpeted from the rooftops by the early Christians! Jesus fulfilled all prophecies of the Messiah in the Old Testament, and for that reason only, Jews accepted him as their Savior.

Now, let's assume that WMSCOG is the new revelation of Jesus Christ. That would make your group the new "early Christians", the newest believers of the revelation of God. In order to convince a world full of Christians, Jews and Muslims that Ahnsahnghong is the Christ, why would your group refuse, or avoid, showing us the prophecies he fulfilled? We need to know the prophecies in order to believe! Jesus did not hide any prophetic fulfillment. He made the Scriptures clear, and He didn't hide or confuse any meanings.

And if you believe that Ahnsahnghong is Christ, that means he must fulfill every prophecy in both Old and New Testaments regarding the Messiah. Please, we need to know how this can be possible.

If you want many other people to be saved, you shouldn't need to hide your revelations for only the church to see. Jesus did not establish a church like that. He did not have "treasures hidden for the ages". He invited all people, from all nations and religions to come and see that he was the Messiah. Can't Ahnsahnghong do the same?"

That's a good point, Daniel.  There should be no need to hide prophecies and doctrine and revelations from the world.  I know of no legitimate church that does so.  Any church that truly wants to spread their message to the world will make it as available as possible.

The WMSCOG doesn't make their books available to the public, even though Ahnsahnghong says in the preface of The Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life, "This book is worthy to be read not only by the general believers but also by pastors and professors of theological schools."

And then he says, "Please study this book seriously and visit us."  He meant his book to be read by non-members who would then visit the church, but the WMSCOG will not sell it to non-members.  Isn't there something wrong with that?

Anonymous wrote on November 29, 2012:
(I'm not publishing the email address that was included.)

"I think that it is important that the proper wording is use....the teaching of WMSCOG never said "the Passover disappeared" It was ABOLISHED at the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. Christ Ahnsahnghong RESTORED the Passover....how many "Cult" religion you know or heard talk about the "Passover" In all honesty, cults dont talk about the Passover and let alone put any of God's commands into practice....thats should be a red flag to any true christians....2000 years ago Jesus pointed out those who are God's people, people who love God-im sure your familiar with "the Wise and Foolish Builder" Matt7:24-27...and Jesus also testify in the same chapter Matt7:21-23
My email [removed]"

I appreciate hearing from you, but if you think it's very important that the proper wording is used regarding whether Passover disappeared, then you should correct the WMSCOG.  They do use that word, and you can even see it on their main website about the Feasts of God.

I think you are letting your feelings get in the way of your thinking regarding what a "cult" would not teach.  Do you consider Mormonism or the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult, or a heretical church?  They teach many Biblical practices and follow many of God commands, but their core teachings are drastically different from mainstream Christianity.  (Mormons believe there are many Gods and that man may become a God.  Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was not God.)  Plus they are also categorized as cults according to their behavior.

Anonymous (the same one?) wrote on November 29, 2012:

"Genny......you said "I'd like to talk more about what is required for salvation. Imagine this situation. You and I happened to meet in person, but just while we were greeting, I am hit by the bullet of a drive-by shooter. I am lying there, on the sidewalk, bleeding (but conscious) with only a few minutes left to live. What would you tell me that I needed"

The only answer to that is reflect back 2000 years ago during Jesus' crucifixion, two robbers that were crucified. One rebuked him but the other had a repentent heart and believe in heart(soul)Jesus as his savior. I would say to you "Do you accept and believe that Christ Ahnsahnghong and Heavenly Mother who is the Spirit and Bride-Wife of the Lamb as your Savior?" and the rest is up to God. God sees whats in every man's heart theres no escaping. But only by believing and accepting the existance of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, like the robber that believed and accepted Jesus, can anyone be saved...!! "

In my experience, the WMSCOG does not teach that "believing and accepting the existence of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother" is enough for salvation.  Perhaps you should double check that with your pastor or deacon.  They have always preached to me that faith is not enough.

"tru sagacity" wrote on November 30, 2012:

"Genny....

I’ve been following your conversation with Cyrus who happens to be a member of World Mission Society-Church of God. In life I have come to learn how erroneous Man have shown throughout history. That is our very flaw of our sinful nature which we also know as arrogant. I commend you for the bible vs. “ Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”--1 John 4:1 And as christians we should test the spirits, but with LOVE in our hearts. It breaks my heart to see that your initial intent was to test the Spirits yet display a very offensive Head-Liner. Unless your true motive was to expose WMSCOG as a Cult Religion, and the general public who view your page receive a misconception about the WMSOCOG and the message the church brings. The thing about all this is really irrelevant, because everything has been set in motion. Where there is chaos, God already set order and we can see God’s work (Prophecies) being revealed in the Age of the Holy Spirit. You both can make arguing points all day, but in reality God already spoken and prophesied in the book 2 Cor 3: 6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” You can clearly see its affect, this is what’s happening. Its dividing each one of us from seeing the truth and placing doubts in our hearts and minds. Further more as it is written in the book of Heb 8: 10-11 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” As you and I can come to understand its not our extensive study, accumulated knowledge or what we think is the right interpretation of the bible that defies which person or beliefs has the truth.What you may not know about WMSCOG is that they are against and taught not to get our selves involve with debates, that can turn out to an on going “I’m right and your wrong” (allowing satan to place doubt and stir negative/hate/anger attitude towards a goal, to saving souls).... but you read the verses so I hope it is clear to you. WMSCOG express this to members to not do, yet our sinful nature invites us to disobey, which leads to all misunderstanding and views that truly represents WMSCOG. "

and

"WMSCOG are to relate what the bible teaches, practice the examples that were taught, set by our Lord Jesus for his children to follow. Members of WMSCOG follow the prophecies and the commands that Jesus commanded his children to do. Members of WMSCOG are active in the 10 talent movement prophesied in the Scripture, so they are encourage to preach and look for the scattered sheep. God’s sheep who hear and recognize his voice and follow him. You might already know these verses to be in agreement those who are God’s children and reasons why not everyone that has eyes, ears, mind and heart have absolute truth and understanding....I list a few....John 10:26-27...John 8:42-47...Matt 13:11.....Many who become members are quick and eager to spread the good news of what they have heard and learn, even though they don’t have all the studies put in, so they can or may come out pushy, unknowledgeable, or lack tact. Its not an over night thing, but their hearts in the right place and in time growing in the faith, slowly shed old negative habits(sinful flesh).

With everything said, we should be slow with our tongue and not pass judgement on others. We should look at ourselves and judge only ourselves, after all are we not all born with sin...?? and isn’t God the judge of us all...!?! I ask that you reconsider posting sites like this one, but if you have concerns don’t make it public, but pray about it and let God handle it... Id like to finish this conversing with a quote from “Teachings of Mother” taught in the WMSCOG....”A Beautiful mind has no hate, and brings forth a PERFECT ‘LOVE’.”

Ps. if you want an objective proof to WMSCOG in their belief of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, God summed it all up in these verses, Romans 1:19-20... Rev. 21:9... Rev.22:17 and in truth all 66 Testaments is practically screaming the Words Father and Mother......( This is how you should pray “ Our Father who is in Heaven......” in Gal 4:26 “but the Jerusalem that is Above is free, and She is Our Mother...” ) if one is to have a spiritual understanding (not the physical eyes and ears, or heart) then you will see that the verses are mated to see the secrets that has been hidden and sealed through all ages, until NOW......and in relations to your Bible verse 1 John 4:1 this is how a spirit is tested....God Bless You...!!! <3"

You sent the same thing by email, and I've appreciated the exchange we had there.  Since you also posted this as a comment, you must have wanted this published for everyone to read.  Therefore, I will also share my response...

Do you mean the headliner "Encountering the Cult of Ahnsahnghong" with the word "cult"?  I would agree with your point if I was just throwing the term around lightly without thought, but people visiting my webpage need for information need to know that this group has been labeled as such by experts in the field.  It is not my own label.  There is plenty of information available on my blog and my linked resources for people to investigate whether this is reasonable.  Also, the WMSCOG already had a well-formulated response to being called a cult, so it is not new or unexpected to them as an organization.

My main intent with the conversation (and the whole website) is not to get people out of the WMSCOG, but my main purpose is to educate people about what the WMSCOG teaches and how it differs from Christianity and how to understand a loved one who believes it.  If the information helps people to leave the WMSCOG or not join in the first place, then I admit I am happy for that.

Yes, I agree that a person can have a whole lot of knowledge, but still not have the truth.
I'm not sure if you are saying that Cyrus does not represent the views of the WMSCOG and is causing people to misunderstand what the WMSCOG teaches.  I have discovered that the WMSCOG seems to teach different things in different place, so I would not be surprised if you think he misunderstands the WMSCOG.
If you are saying that the WMSCOG teaches not to get involved with discussions on doctrine--why?  Are they worried that you might hear ideas to contradict what you have been taught?  It seems to me that the WMSCOG are happy to have discussion when it's them telling others their church is wrong, but they are not ok with discussions in which they have to hear that they themselves might have it wrong.

I would expect someone who truly believes in their faith to live by it.  I live by my faith, and I am not surprised that WMSCOG members live by theirs (even though I think they have been taught incorrectly about many things).

I did pray about it a lot before I started the website, and I did pray and try other things before writing online at all in any forums even before that.  As for passing judgment, we are to be careful how we judge because the same measure will be used to judge us.  We must call sin for what it is, but correct others with love.  If you believe what you have said here, then you should also consider asking the WMSCOG to not pass judgment on other churches and to take down the many blogs, videos, and websites that severely judge Catholics and other Christian churches.  If they have such concerns about other churches, do you think they should not make it public but let God handle it?

If all 66 books of the Bible are "practically screaming" about "father and mother," then don't you think other churches and Bible scholars would have seen it by now?  The WMSCOG's interpretation of Gal. 4:26 is flawed from the beginning.  You can read about it here: http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/11/galatians-426-part-1.html
If you are going to "mate" verses that have similar words, you have to use good scholarship to do it, or you will end up with faulty doctrine, which unfortunately is what has happened with the WMSCOG's mated verses.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I do care about what happens to you and your friends in the WMSCOG.  If I didn't, I wouldn't try so hard to share these things with you.

 Happy New Year to you all!
 

Conversation with Cyrus, a WMSCOG member

In my previous post regarding clues that the World Mission Society Church of God is false, one of those commenting was "Cyrus."  Cyrus is currently a member of the WMSCOG and is willing to engage in conversation to clarify some points.  Thank you, Cyrus!

Our conversation will take place right here, through the comment section of this post.  I hope it will serve as a good source of information for the rest of our readers here.  However, I respectfully request that the comments on this post be limited to just Cyrus.  For anyone else who wishes to comment about this conversation, please visit the forum (examiningthewmscog.com/forum), or send me an email.  Thank you!

First, some ground rules, Cyrus, for you and me:

• Each comment should be made in two parts, a response to the previous point and the raising of a question.
• Response -- We should respond to the question that was last put forth, keeping in mind the purpose of explaining and encouraging understanding and not simply fighting.  Also, please avoid using phrases such as "You don't understand because you are not one of God's chosen" (more examples here).  We can also respond to the previous response, as long as it doesn't include an additional question that needs an answer.
• Question -- We should ask a question, either to further pursue the issue, or raise a different point.  For the ease of following the conversation, please limit the question to one point.  Do not ask a question related to your response and ask a new question as well.
• If we think the other's response is incomplete, inadequate, or needs to be clarified, first we should answer their question (give our response), then our question should concern the previous response.  In other words, don't avoid their question in order to focus on their response.  In this way, we should never be talking about more than two topics at once.
• Timeliness is nice, but life is busy.  A delay in answering should not be taken negatively or cause concern, unless there has been silence for more than two weeks.

I hope that is all clear.  Thank you, again, and now let's get started.  You posed the first question...

---

"Let us make man in our image... Male and female He created them" Genesis 1:26-27. "the Spirit and the bride say come... Take the free gift of the water of life." Revelation 22. The bride of christ is His bride. Guests are invited to the wedding supper, not the bride. We are the guests. Right?

My response:
The first part of what you wrote (Gen. 1:26-27) is about the word Elohim.  I have written about that here: Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3.  I'm going to focus on your question about Revelation 22.  I understand your question to be, "We are the guests at the wedding supper.  Therefore, doesn't someone else have to be the bride of Christ?"

I have heard the WMSCOG say that the Church cannot be both the bride and the guests at the wedding.  But please consider this...

God is called the father of the Israelites, but God is also called the husband of Israel.  But how can the Israelites be both the children and the wife of God?  It doesn't make sense, does it?

It does when you consider that individually, the people were counted as God's children.  But corporately, together as the nation, they were considered as God's bride

In the same way, individually, we are each invited to become part of the Church, the body of believers.  But corporately, together as the Church body, we are the bride of Christ.

God uses descriptive language to help us understand our relationship with Him.

I hope you are able to understand that this is a valid, alternate interpretation of the same verses.

My question for you:
The WMSCOG teaches that there are two distinct Gods.  How do you reconcile that with verses such as these which declare there is only one God?  (Note that all of these quotes use the singular word for God.)
"For I am God, and there is no other" (Isaiah 45:22 and 46:9)
"Is there a God besides me?  Indeed, there is no other rock; I know not one." (Isaiah 44:8)
"Before Me there was no God formed; nor shall there be after Me." (Isaiah 43:10)
"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God," (1 Timothy 1:17)

Ok, your turn.  Please remember the two parts, response and question.

The Power of God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

I'm here today to address  a couple more of the comments from World Mission Society Church of God member(s) that have come through in the last several days.  Again, I'll copy the comments exactly as they were written, without adding, removing, or editing anything

On July 28 at 5:55 am, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --

You quoted: ROM 6:9 - Christ cannot die again. Ahnsahnghong is dead.
Who is Christ to you? Isn't He God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth? In the first place, does God need the flesh to wear? What is the flesh to God. God has no limitations. He can do whatever God wants to do. The flesh, he used in the body of Jesus Christ God does not need. But He used it during His 1st Coming because God CAN. It does not mean that He cannot use any other flesh, it is because GOD CAN!I believe you do not understand the POWER of GOD> 

 On July 29 at 6:34 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus," in response to bigcedbeatz's comment --

Bigcedbiatz, You are foolish because of your little faith. Does God needs the flesh? NO!! When God made the heavens and the earth, He was in Spirit. He needs no flesh at all. But it does not mean that he will not use the flesh for his purpose. Do you know why? It is because God CAN! If God plans it, He will do it, and He CAN!!The flesh He used in the body of Jesus Christ is only a flesh. He used it for His purpose and left it. Will God forever use that same flesh again? God will do whatever He plans to do and nobody can stop God in fulfilling HIS plan! If He wants to reveal himself again in the flesh as an American, Russian, African, HE can do it because HE CAN!!!! Why do you question the power of GOD????? Foolish Christian!! 

Your basic point seems to be that it is within God's power to appear (be born) in the flesh again if He wanted to, and in any physical appearance.  You think I do not understand or believe in the power of God to do such a thing.

Yes, I do believe in the great power of God.  I believe He is able to do things that I can't even imagine.  But there are somethings that God will NOT do -- He will not do anything that is contrary to His character, His nature.  He will not lie.  He will not be unjust.  He will not contradict Himself.  (Here is a more detailed summary of what God cannot do.)

God said that He would not die again (Romans 6:9).  God said, multiple times, that there is only one God (see those verses here, here, and here.)  Did God lie when He said those things?

The WMSCOG teaches that Isaac was also God in the flesh.  Yet Isaac lied (Genesis 26), and Isaac was deceived (Genesis 27).

The Bible says God will not lie (Titus 1:2), and that He cannot be deceived by anyone (Hebrews 4:13).  The WMSCOG teaches that God lies and can be deceived.

Are you saying that God is so "powerful" that He can act contrary to His nature?

What do you call a "God" who acts contrary to God's unchanging nature?  A false god!

Evidence for your faith -- A question for WMSCOG members

I don't believe in a completely blind faith.  I know that some people are perfectly happy believing in their religious faith without knowing anything substantial as evidence, and ignoring anything that has a risk of disproving their faith.  That is not in my personality, though.

I have talked with atheists, agnostics, and others who question my faith in Christianity.  Some have said, "How can you believe in Jesus and the Bible when there are inconsistencies, contradictions, and other problems?"

I understand this question.  And so I can also understand the reluctance of World Mission Society Church of God members (and people of other religions) to abandon their faith when they are confronted with problems.

Several things happen when I am confronted with those problems, and I am sure there is a similarity between me and my sister (and other WMSCOG members).  I see that:

1. Some of those 'contradictions' others see really do have logical explanations for them if you just look a little farther.
2. People do sometimes fail to act in a 'Christian' manner, but that is because we are flawed human beings.  We need to look at the teaching of the faith more than the actions of the adherents.
3. Some of those other philosophical problems really do have answers if you will just consider another viewpoint.
4. For the cases that are left over, if there are no explanations or answers, I understand the objection, but it does not bother me enough to abandon my faith.  Why?  Because I trust God enough that He has an answer even if I can't see it.

I'd like to focus on point 4.  In order to trust your faith in God enough to overcome any apparent objections, there MUST be something at the root of it as evidence, proof to build your faith on.-- something solid, like the house built on the rock (Matthew 7:25).

When I am confronted with the toughest questions about what I believe, I have to go back to that root, that rock, and remember the immovable facts my faith is built on.

The evidence can't be something that's a matter of opinion or interpretation--those are not stable or provable.

It can't be something that is entirely within the belief system, because then you get into circular arguments which don't prove anything.  Basically that would be, "Why do you believe in the Bible?  Because it is God's word.  How do you know it is God's word?  Because it tells me so."

No, it needs to be something from the outside that is factually based.

Here are two of the key pieces of evidence of my faith in Jesus and Christianity:

• Support for the Resurrection is profound.  It is the only logical explanation (as strange as it may be) of the events occurring after the Resurrection and the changed lives of the disciples.
• There is an abundance of fulfilled prophecy in the Bible recorded in historical documents. 

Now the question for WMSCOG members... What do you consider evidence for your faith in Ahn Sahng Hong and Zahng Gil Jah and the doctrine of the WMSCOG?  When the WMSCOG tells you that you can't have a faith based on common sense, what evidence do you rely on to know you can trust them?

Remember, this evidence needs to be something outside the WMSCOG that is factual, verifiable.

For example, do not say your evidence is the prophecies that Ahn Sahng Hong fulfilled as the second coming Christ, because that is based on the WMSCOG's own interpretation of those prophecies.

Ok, responses please. :)

World Mission Society Church of God Behavior -- Love and Hate

When you first meet people from the World Mission Society Church of God, you might remark at how friendly, sincere, happy, and loving they are.  Indeed, many that I have met are genuinely nice and caring and have a deep and sincere desire to know God.  Why do these same nice people show such extreme animosity toward those who disagree with them?

This has been my experience.  Has it been yours also?  When I ask questions (either too many or too serious), no matter how friendly or sincerely caring my intent, I am met with hostility and insults.  Why, when Jesus said we should love even our enemies (Matt. 5:43-47)?

At first I thought it was simply a failure on their part, individually.  I try, but I am not always perfect at responding to confrontation either.  Or maybe they are like those who purposely disregard what the Bible teaches about love, even though claiming to be Christians.  But it happens so often, and they claim to obey everything the Bible teaches.  What's going wrong here?  The problem is in the teachings of the WMSCOG.

The WMSCOG teaches that complete obedience is required for salvation, and by that they mean complete obedience to the WMSCOG's teachings and Biblical interpretation.

So what does the WMSCOG teach about those who disagree with them?

"God awakens us to the existence of Jerusalem our Heavenly Mother, but the devil our enemy who slanders the truth is covering the glory of God by telling a lie that God the Mother does not exist."  (from Do Not Call Anything Impure That God Has Made Clean)

They teach that those who don't believe in "Mother God" are spreading lies and slander from the devil--listening to them is listening to the devil.  It's very sad that they won't even consider that what they think is a lie is actually verifiable truth.

"The devil is our enemy because he has become the enemy of Elohim-especially God our Mother.  The serpent [the devil] is a perpetual enemy of the woman. The woman, our Mother, leads us into life, but the serpent [the devil] tries to lead us into death. From the beginning there was enmity between them, and to the very end of the age the enmity will continue. He constantly hinders the truth about Mother through various tricks. To prevent us from knowing Mother who gives us life, he denies the Biblical records of Elohim working together by every tricky word and scheme. Thus, he tries his utmost to swallow our souls and lead us into death.  The more the devil hinders us, the more we should be alert and self-controlled, so that we may resist the devil with the correct knowledge of God....  The dragon, the ancient serpent called the devil, is mobilizing numerous people like the sand on the seashore, so-called Christians, to oppose Mother and us who follow Her (Rev 12:17)."  (from The Elohim Gods)

They teach that anyone who is against "Mother" (Zahng Gil-Jah) is a servant of the enemy Satan, and that any argument that sounds convincing is one of the devil's tricks to lead them to death.  Doesn't that sound like the kind of logic a deceiver would use to avoid being exposed?

"The Bible says that the spirit that does not acknowledge God can come in the flesh is the spirit of the antichrist, and warns that we must not accept it....  Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is from Satan....  If anyone denies God's incarnation, he is not a Christian but the one controlled by the spirit of the antichrist."  (from Christianity is a Religion That Believes in Incarnation of God)

They teach that it's the antichrist who doesn't believe in Ahnsahnghong is God in the flesh.  In fact, they teach that anyone who speaks against the WMSCOG in any way is a servant of Satan...

"Then, why do Satan's servants masquerade as servants of righteousness? They do that for the only one purpose of leading people, even God's chosen ones, to hell by deceiving them. ...we should diligently preach the gospel of truth to the people, enlightening them to know the real identity of Satan and his servants who hinder the gospel of God and devour men's souls.  They deceive people into believing that what God's people keep or celebrate is not truth....  What does the Bible say about Satan's servants who blaspheme against God and His people? It says that God scoffs at them and He will break them with an iron rod and dash them to pieces like pottery."  (from Hindrance of Satan and Victory of God)

Back to the main question--why do we see such animosity from our loved ones when we are only trying to help them?  Because they are taught that Satan is using us to try to take them away from the "truth."  Their anger towards us is their anger towards Satan.

The important lesson for us here is to understand why this is happening.  That understanding may help us to avoid responding with equal animosity.

As for the logic of this teaching, I can only tell our WMSCOG friends this...
Be careful!  Satan is a skillful deceiver.  Don't fall for his schemes.  Don't just call these claims about the WMSCOG lies and ignore them.  Don't just listen to your leaders' explanations.  Check it out for yourself.  Think for yourself.

By the way, for those of us who wonder why our loved ones can't seem to see a problem that looks perfectly clear to us, maybe it's because they are also being told...
"We, too, should completely follow what God has taught and instructed us to do, as the children of God, instead of having a faith based on common sense." (from Do Not Call Anything Impure That God Has Made Clean)

If you like allegories, read "The Last Battle" by C.S. Lewis.  It's the final book in the Chronicles of Narnia and gives a good example of how deception and mind control are used to lead people to worship a false Christ.

Public Relations Campaign? -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

Here's another comment from a World Mission Society Church of God member.  This one was sharing links to their activities on Christmas Day, 2011.  I have not removed or changed anything in this comment.

January 29, 2012, 4:40 AM, Anonymous said...

I HAVE ALREADY COME! (NEW YORK ZION)

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nueTjBJ2jnc

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PNnREnl8Ee0

Hello, Anonymous, and thanks for sharing the link.  I notice there are lots of videos and articles popping up lately promoting the WMSCOG.

Some are about their acts of community service.  They have begun a nine week community service campaign, so I expect we are going to be seeing a lot more soon.  Is it a good thing to help people?  Of course.  Is it impressive to see such an organized campaign?  Yes.  I don't mean to diminish any of the good work that they are doing, but...

I notice one of the people commenting says, "No other church can do like this in the world!"  Are you not aware of even a little of what other churches and organizations do around the world?  For your benefit, I'll direct you to a few activities: in Tennessee, in Alabama, in North Carolina, in California, in Fiji, and in India.  I know of a great many Christian community service projects that never get reported in the news or filmed for youtube and advertised all over--they are simply done. 

I still wonder if the WMSCOG does community service mainly to help people, or mainly to get publicity and thanks?  I don't mean to sound cynical, because I'm sure many of the individual members do want to help people, but regarding the leadership and organization in general, I think it's a fair question.

I wonder how many of these nice things they do, but do NOT film themselves or call up the news to have it reported about?  Will they report about every one of their activities during this nine week campaign?  What proportion of these activities are done "in secret" (Matt. 6:1-4)?

There are also videos showing their "I Have Already Come" message, such as this one from Atlanta.  (I feel kind of sorry for the people in the parade that look like they are being overshadowed by the WMSCOG group.  I hope they did this in a respectful way.)

Maybe they've reconsidered how public they want that 'new name' known?  But I wonder... will I stop hearing stories of people being baptized before they learn of the name Ahnsahnghong, and of people being given mysterious answers when they ask about the woman in the pictures ("Mother")?  Will they be straight forward now with people they are 'evangelizing' about what organization they are from and what they actually believe?

I HAVE ALREADY COME! I HAVE ALREADY COME! I HAVE ALREADY COME!

WE LOVE AHNSAHNGHONG NIM! WE LOVE AHNSAHNGHONG NIM! WE LOVE AHNSAHNGHONG NIM!

WE LOVE OMONI! WE LOVE OMONI! WE LOVE OMONI!

When you shout this at people, how do you let them know exactly what you are talking about?

Do you tell them what "Ahn Sahng Hong Nim" means?  Do you tell them what "Omoni" means?  Or do they have to wait and study, study, study with you until you tell them?

Why don't you use the actual name of "Mother"?  Is her name less important?

NEW JERUSALEM, NEW JERUSALEM
JERUSALEM, JERUSALEM, NEW JERUSALEM
HER BRIGHTNESS
HER GREAT SALVATION
HAS APPEARED TO US
IN THE EYES OF ALL NATIONS
OUR MOTHER SHINES HER GLORY TO ALL
ALL THE WORLD SEE HER GREAT MIGHTY WORKS
FROM ENDS OF THE EARTH IN THE EAST
THE WAY OF LIFE, HAS BEEN OPENED
FROM ENDS OF THE EARTH IN THE EAST
THE SHOUTING OF ANGELS IS HEARD
GOD ALMIGHTY HEAVEN’S MOTHER REIGNS
IN ZION, IN ZION, WITH AUTHORITY
SHOUT TO THE WORLD! THE WORLD IS FREED
FROM THE CHAIN OF SIN AND DEATH FOREVERMORE
OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS
THEY ARE NOW REDEEMED!
NOW LET’S GO, GO TO THE WORLD!
GO CROSSING OCEANS TO ALL NATIONS
WHERE OUR BROTHERS, SISTERS ARE
TO THE PEOPLES, TO THE NATIONS
LET’S GO TO THE WORLD
NOW LET’S GO, GO TO THE WORLD
GO CROSSING OCEANS TO ALL THE NATIONS
WHERE OUR BROTHERS, SISTERS ARE
TO THE PEOPLES, TO THE NATIONS
LET’S GO TO THE WORLD
TO THE PEOPLES, TO THE NATIONS
LET’S GO TO THE WORLD!!!

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Thanks for sharing the words, because it was awfully hard for me to catch them all with the background noise.

Just in case you are wondering if other churches have done this to spread their message too--yes, and they are just as impressive.  It does look kind of exciting and makes me want to get involved too.  Check these out:
Second Baptist Church in Houston
The Catholic Church in Paris
A church in Massachusetts
A Lutheran church in Minnesota

I think it's healthy for everyone, no matter your church and faith, to periodically look around and see what's going on in other churches and faiths.  You might be encouraged, or surprised, or inspired, or humbled....

In summary, yes, it's impressive that the WMSCOG organized such a 'flash mob' and that they perform community service.  Are they the only ones who do this?  No.  With the large number of new videos and articles promoting the WMSCOG, it does make me wonder if they are purposely trying to build their image with a public relations campaign.

Just one more thing.  In the videos, the WMSCOG members shout out "We love you!" over and over.  Do you really mean that?  Because from my experience, except for my sister, any kind of love stopped and became animosity when I asked too many difficult questions.

Do you remember to follow Jesus' commands to love even your enemy (Matthew 5:43-46)?
I am praying for you.

Second Coming Christ and Traditions-- Responding to WMSCOG comments

I'm continuing to answer comments sent in recently from World Mission Society Church of God members.  This one focused on Ahnsahnghong as the second coming Christ and also touched on church traditions.

(I have not removed any words from the original comment, but I have fixed spelling errors to help anyone needing to use the online translator.)

January 17, 2012, 7:07 AM, Anonymous said...

I think that anyone can argue just about anything if they really wanted too. but when you think about all the traditions that most churches keep are never based on the bible. 

Thank you, Anonymous, for taking the time to write.  I appreciate hearing your perspective.

Do you have the tradition of celebrating your birthday with a cake and birthday candles and presents and a party?  What purpose does such a celebration serve?  Does it matter to you where that tradition came from?

Different traditions serve different purposes, of course.  The purpose of the traditions that churches keep is to help people connect with and understand God.

A friend of mine told me about a mission trip she took.  One of the 'traditions' (as you might call it) of the Christians in that area was that the Bible must not touch the ground.  They treated their Bibles such that they considered it disrespectful for it to be laid on the floor.

I can't think of a verse in the Bible that commanded that, can you?  So this tradition is not based on the Bible.  But does the tradition have value?  Yes, of course.

Purim and Hanukkah are celebrations that were not commanded by God.  The people chose to honor God and the memory of something He did by establishing these traditions.  Is that wrong?  No.  Even Jesus kept Hanukkah (John 10:22).

How can these churches keep Christmas and Sunday worship which is a fact in history that it was made to worship the sun God. 

Christmas and Sunday worship were made to honor Jesus, not the sun god.  I'll go into more detail in a future post.

When you read the bible Christ said he would come back a 2nd time and by him the one who restores all the truth we can recognize him as God but people have a fixed idea that God would never come in the flesh. But God is our Father, think about all you would do to save your children if you knew they were heading for danger. 

Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus will need to return to "restore truth"?  The WMSCOG gives the impression that Jesus failed at His first attempt because it didn't last.  Was Jesus a failure?  Of course not.

I know of two verses the WMSCOG uses to try to prove that the truth needs to be "restored."
Luke 18:8 ...when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?
The WMSCOG says this means that there will be no faith on the earth, but that's not what it says.  It says, "Will He find faith?"  They assume the answer to be no, that there will be no faith at all.

This is like the mom who leaves her children for a little while and says, "When I come back will I find you doing your chores?"  She does not expect a 'no' answer.  She expects a 'yes,' even if it's only some of the children.

The other verse is Hebrews 9:28 ...To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Christ's second coming will not be to "restore truth" by bring salvation from sin again.  The word for "salvation" here has to do with deliverance, survival, and safety.  It is also used in Luke 1:71, Acts 27:34, and Philippians 1:19.  So you see it is a different sense of salvation.

Jesus came 2000 years ago and at that time everybody knew God as Jehovah but the reason he came was to establish the new covenant by keeping Passover with bread and wine instead of lamb sacrifice as in old testament. 

The reason Jesus came was to satisfy our debt for our sin by becoming the perfect sacrifice, the Passover Lamb so that death (eternal, spiritual death) would pass over us.  The Passover and Jesus' fulfillment of it is filled with wonderful symbolism.  This is a good book about it.

Did you know that Jesus didn't keep Passover "with bread and wine instead of lamb."  The Jews had bread and wine with their Passover lamb as part of the Seder meal.  The disciples prepared the Passover (Mark 14:16) and they ate the meal (Luke 22:20, notice "after supper").

God suffered in [un]imaginable pain and promised us life thru the passover. After his death at his first coming this Passover was abolished. Passover is the way to eternal life because we can have God's flesh and blood just as we have our physical parents' DNA proving we a children of God. Then how could we have eternal life if the way was blocked. 

First, there have been people keeping the Passover throughout history.  It never "completely disappeared from the world" as the WMSCOG claims.

Second, if the way to eternal life was truly blocked, then "the gates of Hades" prevailed against the Church, which would deny Jesus' words in Matthew 16:18.

God said he had to come a second time just as in his first coming. Jesus was a very common name and he was persecuted by his people and eventually sacrificed by his people. it is the same now Christ ahn sahng hong came and restored the truth and it's not that people world mission society just follow a random person just because. Just as his first coming the disciples recognized him because he fulfilled prophecy as messiah. it is the same now and sooner or later this truth will come to light. 

Jesus will return in the same manner He left, not in the same way He came (Acts 1:11).

Was Ahnsahnghong "sacrificed by his people"?  I remember being told that he died of a brain aneurysm.

And please don't use the it's-the-same-now-as-2000-years-ago argument.  Anyone can claim to be the second coming of Christ and use that argument saying, "You don't believe me, and you are persecuting me.  It was the same with Jesus."

Maybe David Koresh was the second coming Christ?  (Yes, I'm being sarcastic here.)  After all, he had a common name, was persecuted, and even killed.  And I'm sure he would have told you that he fulfilled prophecy too.

And the reason we are so persistent when we preach is because we want people to be saved and we have an eager mind and heart just as our parents did coming here. 

I understand that persistence.  When you sincerely believe something, it comes out in the way you live.  If you sincerely believe in Ahnsahnghong, then I would expect you to preach about him.  And I do believe that you sincerely want the best for people.

That's why I'm here too.  I sincerely care for you and my sister and all the others in the WMSCOG, and that's why I'm so persistent in trying to show you that "Father Ahnsahnghong" and "Mother Jerusalem" do not deserve your devotion and worship.

Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

I've received several comments lately from members of the World Mission Society Church of God.  This one mainly has to do with the existence of "Mother God."  I'll respond to it in parts...

(I have not removed any words from the original comment, but I have fixed spelling errors to help anyone needing to use the online translator.)

December 14, 2011, 5:17 AM, Follower of Christ said...

God bless brothers and sisters =D! I attend The Church of God. At first I was a hard devoted Catholic... Just went to Sunday worship for one hour a week.... 

Thank you, Follower of Christ, for taking the time to write to me.  I must say, I'm surprised that you describe yourself as being a "hard, devoted Catholic" but only went to church for "one hour a week."  Seems like you were missing something in your walk of faith, and I'm sorry for you about that.

Then...Well after a Family member Told me about MOTHER GOD I couldn't help but just hear him out, So later after hearing his "nonsense" at the time I would gladly introduce him to my Catholic Church... Well the opposite happened.. When I went I asked about Mother God and I brought my own bible so I would know if they changed something. Anyway Long story short all of the teachings from the church are in the bible. I told myself many times and prayed to GOD that if this was a false church I would leave, with just finding one thing changed in the bible... That was 7 months ago.. To this day I still have the same mentality. If I find one thing different I will leave, Because from what I know, The BIBLE is the word of GOD nothing else. 

You are right that the Bible is the word of God.  However, the WMSCOG does change things in the Bible, though not necessarily the words on the page.  They change the meanings (especially by removing them from their contexts), they miss the finer meanings that you can see by looking at the original language, and they add things not written in the Bible--assumptions that contradict the full message of the Bible.

Many say there is no where that mother GOD is mentioned.. Well allow me to Leave you all with some verses of the bible.. Not my words just GODS lol New King James Version

I'm glad you wrote this.  It shows the chain of verses the WMSCOG uses.  Unfortunately, these verses are taken out of context and don't mean what the WMSCOG tells you they mean.  It's dangerous to try to match up verses like this without considering the context and the full message of the Bible.  (I'll talk more on that later.)

Who is Jerusalem? 
Galatians 4:26 = but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Well that tells me she is in heaven and is my, your, our mother... But I still want to know who she is to GOD.

Galatians 4:26 is not talking about a particular woman in heaven.  Click here for a study on what Galatians 4:26 is talking about and how the WMSCOG misinterprets this verse.

Who is she to GOD? 
Revelation 21:2 and 21:10 = Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. / And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the Holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from GOD. )
So I understand so far that Jerusalem is our mother and she is a bride.... 

You've already started out with an incorrect assumption from Gal. 4:26, and now you are trying to pair it with Revelation 21:2,10.  Ahnsahnghong himself wrote that the New Jerusalem was a place, not a person.  The New Jerusalem here represents the Church, just as it does in Gal. 4:26.  I know the WMSCOG objects to the Bride in Revelation being the Church, but I will address that in more detail in the future.

But who is she the bride to? 
Revelation 21: 9 = Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."
Oh wow so before you learn that she is our mother and she is a bride, a bride to the lamb. 

Now this one is in the correct context.  Rev. 21:9 does belong with Rev. 21:2,10.  Yes, the Bride is the wife of the Lamb.  The Church is also described as the Bride of Christ in other verses.

Who is this lamb?
John 1:29 = The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of GOD who takes away the sin of the world!"
Oh wow well we all know Jesus took away the sins of the world and only he did that so he must be that lamb he speaks of right? 

Yes, correct.  The Lamb referred to in Revelation is Jesus.

Well is there more to Jerusalem? Answer Sure is... =D
Isaiah 62:7 = And give HIM no rest till He establishes and He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
So we know now that Jerusalem is our mother, Gods Bride, and the earth will praise her... but wait I thought you only give praise and honor and glory to only GOD?
1 Timothy 1:17 = Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to GOD who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Wow so if God said he will make Jerusalem the praise of the earth and we can only give praise to GOD, then she must be GOD......

Here you've matched two verses incorrectly again and made assumptions that don't fit.  The Bible does say that God will not allow His glory or praise to be given to another (Isaiah 42:8).  But does that mean that nothing and no one else can get any kind of praise?  Check these verses (using NKJV):
Genesis 49:8; 2 Samuel 14:25; 1 Kings 10:1-9; Proverbs 27:2; Proverbs 31:28-31; Ecclesiastes 4:2; Song of Solomon 6:9

You also need to see the context of Is. 62:7.  Keep reading.  Here's Isaiah 62:9,
"But those who have gathered it shall eat it [Jerusalem's grain],
And praise the Lord;
Those who have brought it together shall drink it in My holy courts."
It's not that Jerusalem is receiving God's praise and therefore must be God.
It's that Jerusalem is causing people to praise God.

By the way, did you notice the verse you referenced, 1 Timothy 1:17 says that there is only one God (singular) who alone is wise?  The only way this reconciles with the WMSCOG's insistence of two gods is if the second "Mother God" is not wise, because only one is wise.

My brothers and sisters all the verses were from the bible. The bible isn't about stories... Its a book of prophecy. As you can see it speaks of Jerusalem, How she is God and how she is our mother and She is God's wife... We are all God's children. Please open up your eyes.. none of this is a CULT.. all teachings are from Christ Ahnsahnghong.

I know it doesn't feel nice to have your beloved church called a 'cult.'  But if you want other Christians to consider the idea that they have been following the deceptions of Satan, then you must also be willing to consider the possibility for yourself.

If Ahnsahnghong was God, he (and the WMSCOG) wouldn't have so many flaws in his teachings, Bible references, and historical facts.  He wouldn't have ANY flaws, but he does.  Therefore Ahnsahnghong was NOT God.

I know it first sounds really insane and you have every right in the world to doubt.. I sure did at first... But Hey if it's in the bible I'm not arguing with it.. As of Ahnsahnghong , there is so much evidence and proof of him being the HOLY SPIRIT. =D Go to THE WORLD MISSION SOCIETY CHURCH OF GOD to learn more... all in the bible.. God bless brothers and sisters. =) http://english.watv.org/ 

There is so much evidence and proof of Ahnsahnghong NOT being the Holy Spirit.  Please look deeper into the Bible besides just the verses and explanations the WMSCOG gives you.

Thanks again for writing.  I do see that you sincerely want to follow God, and I hope that you seriously consider the material presented here.  I'm also sorry I was unable to answer your comment sooner.  I hope you'll be back to respond.

More WMSCOG comments and responses to come...