Counter Counter Argument -- "Ahnsahnghong Died"

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

Continuing the counter-counter-argument series...

Let's start with the argument:
Ahnsahnghong cannot be Christ because he died.

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from Truth of God the Mother, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

Prophecies about King David...

[Regarding Hosea 3:5, Ezekiel 34:11-24, and Ezekiel 37:24-27]

"Through this, God lets us know that He will come in the name of David. Ezekiel wrote this about 450 years after King David's death. Obviously, these prophecies are not about the physical King David but about the spiritual King David."

Yes, there are Messianic prophecies that relate to King David. And yes, because of the timing of these verses, we know that they are not referring to the actual King David because he had already passed long before. I'm not sure I would use the phrase "spiritual King David," but the verses do speak of the Messiah's characteristics (a shepherd and king) and lineage (from the family of David).

Jesus came as King David...

[Regarding Isaiah 9:6-7 and Luke 1:31-32]

"Through this prophecy, again, God lets us know He will be born in the human form as the spiritual King David...

"Jesus Christ received the throne of David. So it's important to understand the relationship between Jesus and King David."

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of reigning on "David's throne." There are multiple verses in the New Testament which show Him being called the "Son of David."

And here is where the WMSCOG takes a wrong turn, when they interpret what "reigning on David's throne" means.

The Relationship between Jesus and King David
30 Years Old...

"David was 30 years old when he became king. And Jesus was 30 years old when He was baptized and began His gospel ministry....

"Jesus could have been baptized at any other age. He was born to preach, then why did He wait until he turned 30 to start preaching? He could've easily started at a much younger age and accomplished much more....

"Christ Ahnsahnghong was born in 1918 and was baptized in 1948 at 30 years old."

They are saying that why else would Jesus wait until He was 30 to be baptized except to match David who became king at age 30. And since Ahnsahnghong was also 30 when he was baptized, then David = Jesus = Ahnsahnghong.

I have previously written about this "prophecy," but regarding the age of 30, the first thing to know is that Luke 3:23 says Jesus was "about thirty years of age." The presence of that word "about" means that the exact age of 30 was not important. He could have been 29, 30, 31, or even 32.

Beyond that, why would Jesus have waited until He was 30? That was the minimum age when priests were eligible to serve in the temple (Num. 4:1-3, 21-23, 29-30; and 1 Chron. 23:2-5). Waiting until the age of 30 would mean no one could argue about His age, that He was too young.

40 Year Reign...

"Additionally, King David reigned forty years. Then what does this mean about Jesus' gospel ministry?"

[The next quote is from the embedded video:]

"Jesus did the gospel work for 3 years and then ascended to heaven while King David reigned for 40 years. Then who will fulfill the gospel work of the remaining 37 years of King David?"

Again, I wrote about this in another article, but regarding 40 years, is there any verse that actually says the Messiah would reign (or preach) for 40 years? No. The prophecy was that Jesus would reign "from that time on and forever" (Isa. 9:7) and "His kingdom will never end" (Luke 1:31-33).

Plus, notice the verse that comes after the one often quoted by the WMSCOG:
"David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years." (2 Sam. 5:4-5)

David did not become king of "Israel" until he was about 37, because for the first 7 1/2 years he was only king over his own tribe of Judah. There was "war between the house of Saul and the house of David" about who would be the next king (2 Sam. 3:1).

Also, with the WMSCOG's teaching that everything is "copy and shadow" (Heb. 8:5), if it were truly a prophecy that the Messiah's preaching would be split in a way that equals 40 years like David's reign, that split would have been 7 years and 33 years, NOT 3 years and 37 years.

Ahnsahnghong preached for 37 years...

"At the end of his reign, Kind [sic] David passed away and was buried. In the same way, Christ Ahnsahnghong passed away in 1985 after preaching for 37 years. Christ Ahnsahnghong's death lets us know He is Second Coming Christ who fulfilled prophecy. ... Christ Ahnsahnghong even prophesied about His death in a religious magazine in Korea.... his death is proof that He is Second Coming Christ."

First, from the time Ahnsahnghong was baptized until he died, it was only just over 36 years. To stretch that to 37 years takes more than the usual rounding. And this is assuming he started preaching right away after his baptism.

And what of Ahnsahnghong "prophesying" about his own death? The quote from the article:

"'The Second Coming Jesus has to come to the earth in secret and pass away after preaching the gospel for 37 years...,' says the Church of God."

The article is dated 1981, about four years before Ahnsahnghong died in 1985. They calculate that the time from his baptism in 1948 to his death in 1985 is 37 years (1985-1948=37), so he must have been speaking about himself as the "Second Coming Jesus."

However, he was baptized in Dec. 1948 and died in Feb. 1985--again, just over 36 years. Now, if these dates referred to someone's life, born in Dec. 1948 and died in Feb. 1985, would you say that they lived for 37 years? No, you would say they lived 36 years.

It is the same for Ahnsahnghong. He preached 36 years, not 37 years.

I have shown why the "40 year reign" is not correctly interpreted as a prophecy, but let's say, hypothetically for a moment, that it is correct. When we look for the fulfillment of a prophecy, do we look for something that is close? No, even the WMSCOG agrees that prophecy is fulfilled exactly.

For example, Jesus was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2 and Matt. 2:4-6). If He had been born in Jerusalem, about 10 km away, would we say that He fulfilled the prophecy? No, close is not good enough.

Likewise, Ahnsahnghong's just-over-36 years is close, but not an exact fulfillment of his own "prophesy" of 37 years.

The True Meaning of David's Throne...

Let's go back to the relationship between Jesus and King David. What did the prophecies mean when they said the Messiah would sit on "David's throne"? It simply meant that the Messiah would be born into David's family line, which Jesus fulfilled both through Mary's line (Luke 3) and Joseph's line (Matthew 1).

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Ahnsahnghong's Birthday, Baptism, and Death

If you have talked with a World Mission Society Church of God member or visited the official church website recently, you probably already know that this year they celebrated Christmas.  No, not exactly Christmas... they celebrated Ahnsahnghong's birthday which happened to fall on December 25, 2011.  They even have a new website highlighting it.

(UPDATE Jan. 12, 2012 -- That new website is gone, but you can find the information here and here.  It's interesting how much publicity the WMSCOG put into celebrating Ahnsahnghong's birthday Dec. 25, 2011.  Why is there no record of such celebration any other year on their website?)

(UPDATE Apr. 10, 2012 -- That website it back again, but different.  This time it only shows several videos from the WMSCOG's "I Have Already Come" campaign.  Strangely though, it has no apparent link to their main church website.)

How does someone's birthday fall on a different day each year, I wondered?  The lunar (lunisolar) calendar of Korea (same as the Chinese calendar) is different from the solar calendar that we commonly use, the Gregorian calendar.

If you measure your birthday on the lunar calendar, and each year convert the date to the Gregorian calendar, you'll find that it falls on different 'Gregorian' days each year.  This is similar to seeing January's full moon (for example) on a different day of January each year.

I thought I ought to investigate, and not just this, but other important dates.  For your reference, here's a handy Gregorian-Lunar calendar converter (provided by the government of Hong Kong).  I'll go through this step by step...

Ahnsahnghong's Birth Date

The WMSCOG tells us that Dec. 25, 2011 is the 94th birthday of Ahnsahnghong.
They say his birthday by the lunar calendar was Dec. 1.

Actually, Dec. 1918 to Dec. 2011 is only 93 years.  What they really mean (which didn't come across well in the translation) is that Ahnsahnghong's birthday is the 1st day of the 12th month.

You can see in the calendar of 1918 that the 12th month, 1st day, is January 13, 1918.  This birthday (January 13, 1918) was verified by a friend, and also calculates the "94th Anniversary" correctly to Dec. 25, 2011.

From this we need to remember:
Birthday = Jan. 13, 1918 = 12th month, 1st day (early 1918)

Ahnsahnghong's Baptism

The WMSCOG says Ahnsahnghong was baptized in 1948, but the New Covenant Passover Church of God (the NCPCOG, another church founded by Ahnsahnghong) give us a more specific date, Dec. 16, 1948.

Here's the calendar for 1948.  We know they mean the Gregorian Dec. 16, and not the lunar 12th month, 16th day, because that would be January 26.  Jan. 26, 1948 would be too early because Israel did not declare independence until May 14, 1948.

From this we need to remember:
Baptism = Dec. 16, 1948 = 11th month, 16th day (late 1948)

Ahnsahnghong's Death

The WMSCOG tells us that Ahnsahnghong "ascended" (died really, here's his grave) in February 1985.  A more specific date of Feb. 25, 1985, is given in this article (third paragraph under the first bullet point).

Here's the calendar from 1985.
From this we need to remember:
Death = Feb. 25, 1985 = 1st month, 6th day (early 1985)

Now Some Calculations

Since we know these dates, let's see how they work with the WMSCOG's claims that Ahnsahnghong
1)  was baptized at 30 years old, and
2)  preached 37 years (they count this from his baptism, not from when he officially established his own church in 1964.).

First, how old was Ahnsahnghong when he was baptized?
Jan. 13, 1918 to Dec. 16, 1948 = 30 years, 11 months, 3 days (Gregorian)
12th month, 1st day early 1918 to 11th month, 16th day late 1948 = 30 years, 11 months, 16 days (lunar)

Yes, technically he was 30 years old, but nearly 31.

Second, how long did he 'preach' from baptism to death?
Dec. 16, 1948 to Feb. 25, 1985 = 36 years, 2 months, 9 days (Gregorian)
11th month, 16th day late 1948 to 1st month, 6th day early 1985 = 36 years, 1 month, 20 days (lunar)

Just over 36 years--that takes extra rounding to get up to 37 years.

Thought you might be interested to know all that.

Perhaps a greater question, considering the WMSCOG's insistence on avoiding anything with pagan origins,
Why are they keeping Ahnsahnghong's birthday according the lunar calendar, instead of the "Sacred Calendar"?

For more information...
...about the WMSCOG's claimed prophecy of 37 years, please read my posts about David's Throne, Part 1 and Part 2.

I find it especially compelling that they use 2 Samuel 5:4 for this prophecy,

"David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years."

But they don't seem to read on to the next verse, 2 Samuel 5:5,

"In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years over all Israel and Judah."

If God truly meant this as a prophecy about 40 years of preaching divided between Jesus' first and second comings, it would have been divided 7 years and 33 years, NOT 3 years and 37 years.
The "David's Throne" prophecy has been wrongly interpreted by the WMSCOG.

Christ Died Again???

Romans 6:9
knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

...And yet, if Ahn SahngHong was Christ come in the flesh again, why did he die again? The World Mission Society Church of God says that his death in 1985 was to fulfill prophecy (the one about David's throne, which I have previously posted about), but we know from Paul in his letter to the Romans, that Christ CANNOT die again. IF the David's throne prophecy truly needed to be fulfilled as the WMSCOG claim, there are other ways God could have arranged things so that Christ did not die again.

Just another contradiction between WMSCOG doctrine and the Bible.

Find a followup to this post here: Romans 6:9 -- Christ Cannot Die Again.

Examining Prophecies--David's Throne, Part 2

Well, the prophecy the World Mission Society Church of God uses about David's throne is a bit complicated. I have shown already that of all the instances when David's throne, or the Root of David, was mentioned in the Bible, none of them had anything to do with David becoming king at age 30 and reigning 40 years. The WMSCOG says that since Jesus, though baptized at 30, only preached for 3 years, He left part of that prophcy unfulfilled, so the second coming Christ had to preach the remaining 37 years. Ahnsahnghong was baptized at 30, and lived another 37 years before he died. So even though he died, he fulfilled this prophecy and must be the second coming Christ, they say.

They look at Luke 3:21-23, a passage that describes Jesus being baptized and then says, "Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age." Then they say that Jesus purposely waited until He was 30 years old to be baptized and begin ministering specifically so He could fulfill this part of the David's throne prophecy (to parallel David becoming king at age 30). Why would Jesus wait until He was 30, if not for this reason, they ask?

First, they completely ignore the word “about” in Luke 3:23, “Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age.” The Greek word for “about” is there in the sentence. The WMSCOG takes seriously Rev. 22:18-19 which warns about adding or taking away from the Bible. Yet, that’s what they do with this verse, because leaving in the word “about” would force them to admit that Jesus might not have been exactly 30. He may have been 31, or 32, or even 29 ... but that wouldn’t fit their David’s throne prophecy interpretation.

Second, read these verses:
Num. 4:1-3, 21-23, 29-30
1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: 2 “Take a census of the sons of Kohath from among the children of Levi, by their families, by their fathers’ house, 3 from thirty years old and above, even to fifty years old, all who enter the service to do the work in the tabernacle of meeting.

21 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 22“Also take a census of the sons of Gershon, by their fathers’ house, by their families. 23 From thirty years old and above, even to fifty years old, you shall number them, all who enter to perform the service, to do the work in the tabernacle of meeting.

29 "As for the sons of Merari, you shall number them by their families and by their fathers’ house. 30 From thirty years old and above, even to fifty years old, you shall number them, everyone who enters the service to do the work of the tabernacle of meeting."

1 Chron. 23:2-5
2 He also gathered together all the leaders of Israel, as well as the priests and Levites. 3 The Levites thirty years old or more were counted, and the total number of men was thirty-eight thousand. 4 David said, "Of these, twenty-four thousand are to supervise the work of the temple of the LORD and six thousand are to be officials and judges. 5 Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose."

Couldn’t Jesus’ waiting until he was about 30 years old have something to do with the priests’ ages when they were eligible to minister in the Temple?

Here’s another thing to think about regarding this prophecy...
Let’s just assume for a minute that the prophecy DOES have something to do with the years of David’s reign. Would it make sense that Ahnsahnghong fulfilled the prophecy?
Just a reminder, the WMSCOG asserts that since David became king at age 30 and ruled for 40 years, and Jesus was baptized at age 30 and preached for 3 years, and Ahnsahnghong fulfills this “prophecy” because he was baptized at age 30 and preached 37 years (the remainder of the 40 years that Jesus didn’t complete).

But let’s look at David’s life and how he became king….
David was anointed king by Samuel under God’s direction when he was just a boy. (1 Samuel 16) So actually, David was given the kingship by God Himself when he was young. We don’t know exactly how old he was, but he was the youngest of 8 sons and only the 3 oldest were able to go into battle.

If the David’s throne prophecy is about ages and years, why is there no mention of Ahnsahnghong when he was young and what he was doing at about the same age as David was at his first anointing? The Bible (Luke 2) tells us that when Jesus was 12 he was in the temple amazing people with His knowledge and insight. Wonder what the boy Ahnsahnghong would have been doing, about 1930, in Korea, surrounded by Buddhist parents, family, and society?

David became king at age 30 and reigned 40 years, according to 2 Sam. 5:4, the verse that the WMSCOG references. But read the next verse, 2 Sam. 5:5, “In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years over all Israel and Judah.” (You can read more about this in 2 Sam. 2) David did not actually become king of “Israel” when he was 30—he was only king of Judah. He reigned over Judah for 7 years and did not become king of all Israel until he was 37!

It was the people who anointed him king both at 30 (over Judah) and 37 (over Israel).
It was God, through the prophet Samuel, who anointed him king when he was a boy.

Out of all this, it seems that the most significant times were when David was anointed as a boy, and when he finally became king of all Israel at age 37. Why would the WMSCOG pick the anointing at age 30? Because they can make it fit their purposes, perhaps?

And, since all the Bible is so meaningful, and everything is written as a shadow of things to come (as the WMSCOG so often says). Why would God split the preaching years of the “Christs” into 3 for Jesus and 37 for Ahnsahnghong? If the “prophecy” were meant to be interpreted in the sense that the WMSCOG interprets it, wouldn't we be looking for the 1st Christ to preach 7 years (David’s time ruling over Judah) and the 2nd Christ to preach for 33 years (David’s time ruling all Israel)?

After all this study, the conclusion is that the WMSCOG’s interpretation and application of the David’s throne prophecy fails.

Examining Prophecies--David's Throne, Part 1

Another prophecy the World Mission Society Church of God uses to prove Ahn Sahng-Hong as Christ...

When Christ returns
He will reign on David’s throne.
Hosea 3:5; Luke 1:31; 2 Sam. 5:4
According to the WMSCOG, Jesus did not completely fulfill the prophecy of receiving David’s throne.

Since King David was 30 years old when he became king and reigned for 40 years, that is what Jesus was expected to do also. Jesus began His kingship (was baptized) at 30 years old (Luke 3:23), but only ministered for 3 years (approximately). Therefore, His ministry was incomplete. The second coming Christ will have to be baptized at 30 (like David) and preach for the unfulfilled 37 years. Ahnsahnghong was baptized at 30 years old in 1948 and preached the remaining 37 years, dying in 1985. (This is why they will also say that his death was also to fulfill a prophecy—he could not keep preaching after 37 years because he would have exceeded the allotted time.)

Isa. 55:3; Heb. 13:12
Additionally, the sign of the true prophetical King David (according to the WMSCOG) will be that he restores the Passover. This is another prophecy the WMSCOG uses to point to Passover, but I’ll look at the Passover separately, later. Right now, I’m going to look at David’s throne….

Finally, here would be a nice, specific prophecy (baptized at 30, preach for 37 years)—IF it was interpreted correctly, but it’s NOT! I have never, ever seen any Jewish scholar reporting that the prophecy of reigning on David’s throne means that the Jews expected the Messiah to be baptized at 30 years old and rule for 40 years. If there is one out there, the WMSCOG ought to reference it. “Sitting on David’s throne” has nothing to do with the years of David’s reign—it’s all about the family line of David. Why would the WMSCOG misinterpret this prophecy? Because what kind of chance is there that a man from Korean family would be descended from the Jewish King David?

I searched the Scriptures to find out what is meant by “reigning on David’s throne.” As I read each one I asked, in this passage is “David’s throne” referring to the years of reign (beginning at 30, reigning for 40 years)? Or is it referring to the descendants of David ruling on the throne of Israel? Not once did I see a Scripture that could have been meant to refer to the years of reign. If I’ve missed one, I hope someone will be kind enough to point it out.

I'm going to save space and just write the Scripture references. You can look them up quickly at www.biblegateway.com.

2 Sam. 3:9-10
This is before David even began to rule as king. When Abner spoke this, did he know already the years of David’s rule? No. He was talking about David and his line being established as rulers of Israel and Judah.

1 Kings 1:13, 29-37
1 Kings 2:4, 10-12, 24, 33, 45
1 Kings 3:6-7
These verses all refer to Solomon becoming king after David, about Solomon being given David’s throne. As a matter of fact, Solomon did reign for 40 years (1 Kings 11:42), but we don’t know how old he was when he became king. Nevertheless, these verses are given when Solomon BECAME king. Were they limiting their king to 40 years of service? No, they expected David to have descendants sitting on the throne forever.

Psalm 132:11
Isa. 16:5
Who will sit on the throne? “One from the house of David”—a descendant of David.

Isa. 9:7
The Messiah to reign on David’s throne will reign from “that time on and forever,” not a mere 40 years.

Jer. 13:13-14
Jer. 17:25
Jer. 22:1-5
Jer. 29:16
Who are the kings who sit on David’s throne in the book of Jeremiah? Not kings who began their rule at 30 years old and continued for 40 years. They were descendants of David, ruling over Israel and Judah.

Jer. 33:17-21
Who is the man that will sit on the throne? A descendant of David.

Isa. 11:1, 10
Rev. 5:5
Rev. 22:16
These are all about someone from the "root of David" or the "root of Jesse" (who was David's father). That is a reference to the family line, not a number of years.

Luke 1:31-33
Was Jesus expected to reign for only 40 years? No. Did He need someone to complete His remaining 37 years of preaching? No. He rose from the dead and lives forever Himself. “His kingdom will NEVER end.”

But wait—if the prophecy of David’s throne means that the second coming Christ must be a descendant of David, doesn’t that contradict the previous prophecy of him being a Gentile (the order of Melchizedek)?

No, remember Hebrews 7--the prophecy about Melchizedek was not about being a Gentile. Only members of the tribe of Levi were permitted to be priests according to the law. Melchizedek did not obtain his priesthood from his genealogy. Jesus also is not a priest because of His genealogy. He was not from the tribe of Levi. His was a God-given priesthood. Being a priest in the order of Melchizedek does not mean that the Christ must be a Gentile. It means that the Christ is not from the tribe of Levi.

We could say that because Ahnsahnghong was a Gentile, he was definitely not from the tribe of Levi, and so he still would fulfill this prophecy of being in the order of Melchizedek. But He does not fulfill the prophecy of being one of David’s descendants to sit on David’s throne (as it is rightly interpreted).

Click here to go on to Part 2.