Part 1 of this series examined the sources the World Mission Society Church of God uses to support their claim against the Papacy. I saw that they continue to have problems (like they did with their claims about the cross):
- misrepresenting information by taking it out of context
- presenting (or inventing?) 'facts' that are not in the referenced resource
- not being specific enough with their source so it can be verified
- selecting some information but neglecting to mention other important information from the same source
Then I examined the Scriptures and history to see how they matched up with the claims of the Pope-is-Antichrist teaching. Scripture and the historical record give plenty of evidence to show that the Pope-is-Antichrist teaching is false, especially when combined with the particular doctrine of the World Mission Society Church of God.
Here is a summary of those claims compared to reality, and in relation to Revelation 13:
Rev. 13:1-2 The beast has 7 heads with 10 horns and 10 crowns.
similar to Dan. 7:7-8, 20, 24 The beast had 10 horns, and another little horn came up among them and plucked out 3 of the first horns.Claim: When the Roman Kingdom fell, it split into 10 kingdoms. Three of those kingdoms did not follow the doctrine of the Catholic Church and were subdued (or destroyed) because of that. The last of them (Ostrogoths) was destroyed in A.D. 538.
Reality: When the Roman Kingdom fell, many kingdoms arose from it, but not the same kingdoms (or the same number) as claimed. The Ostrogoths were still strongly defending themselves after 538 and were not defeated until 553. By then, of the claimed 10 kingdoms, 5 kingdoms (not 3) had been subdued, and 1 of the kingdoms still had not entered Roman territory. Also, adherence to Catholic doctrine was not a factor in whether or not a kingdom was conquered.
Read Part 3 for detailed information.
Rev. 13:3-4 The beast suffered a fatal wound that was healed.
Claim: The papacy suffered a "deadly wound" in 1798 when the Pope was captured by Napoleon's general. The wound has been healing since then.Reality: There are many occasions in the history of the Catholic Church that could be considered "deadly wounds" that have healed. The verse implies only one fatal wound, not a series of struggles. There is no reason to pick the particular wound of 1798 over any other.
Read Part 4 for detailed information.
Rev. 13:5 The beast was given authority to rule for 42 months
Claim: This 42 months is 1260 days, which prophetically mean 1260 years. The rule of the Catholic Church (papacy) began in 538 and continued until the "deadly wound" in 1798--exactly 1260 years as prophesied.Reality: There are several years that could be considered the beginning of the rule of the Catholic Church, but 538 is not one of them. Significant historical markers of the Catholic Church do not fit into a prophecy of 1260 years. Also, events that were supposed to be happening during these 1260 years would contradict other World Mission Society Church of God doctrine.
Read Part 5 and Part 6 for detailed information.
Rev. 13:6 / Dan. 7:25 The beast speaks blasphemy and tries to change the times and law.
Claim: The Pope is made equal with God, and Catholic priests are said to forgive sin. Both of those are examples of blasphemy. The Catholic Church has changed the sacred calendar (substituting Sunday for Saturday Sabbath, Easter for Passover, instituting Christmas) and has tried to change God's law (omitting and changing some of the 10 Commandments).Reality: Official Catholic doctrine does not support the charge of blasphemy. Calendar issues are dealt with in other posts on this blog. The 10 Commandments are actually composed of 14 command statements. The Catholic Church still holds to all 10 Commandments, but they have combined them differently.
Read Part 7 for detailed information.
Rev. 13:18 The number of the beast is 666.
Claim: The Pope's mitre is inscribed with the title "Vicarius Filii Dei." When you add up the values of the Roman numerals in this title, the total equals 666.Reality: There are many people whose names can add up to 666, depending on the method of computation. Since the Catholic Church doesn't match the description of the beast as claimed, it doesn't matter whether or not Vicarius Filii Dei is an official title of the Pope or what number it forms.
Read Part 8 for detailed information.
Conclusion: The 1260 years in the prophecy more likely refers to a future, literal 3 1/2 year time period. Could a Pope of the Catholic Church fulfill the prophecies of the beast in the future? Possibly, but so could many other world leaders. We can only speculate when thinking about the future. The theory of the Catholic Church already fulfilling the prophecies of the Antichrist fails.
A Personal Note
To tell you the truth, when I started researching for this series I didn't know what I would find. I am not Catholic. I wasn't very motivated to clear the Pope (and Roman Catholic Church) from these accusations of being the Antichrist, the beast whose number is 666. I had heard the claim before, had even read the specific reasons, and thought it was a bit intriguing, but that's as far as I got. I didn't think it really mattered to me.
The main reason I decided to research the claims was because some of you readers wrote and asked me (thank you for that!). Now that I've done the research, I'm glad I did--not just because of the facts I've found, but also because I've learned something very important:
When you are confronted with a sensational claim such as this, don't just accept someone else's "research" about it--do your own!
I can't believe this accusation has persisted despite history proving it false! It's kind of like the claims that Elvis is still alive or that the moon landings were all a hoax or that the Holocaust was a myth. They are false, yet the rumors won't quit! It's infuriating! If you can help spread the truth about the Pope not being the Antichrist, please do. Whatever your personal opinions are of the Catholic Church, they should not be falsely accused in this way.
The moon landings were a hoax. Do some research on that. All you have to do is watch the actual videos from the "moon landings". They both have huge flaws that without a doubt prove them to be false. And as far as pope being an antichrist I belive it. I've done my own research, and found files from their own records where they admit to changing the Sabbath, and being equal with the lord. I could go on but this is just a comment that you probably won't even read, and more than likely I'm wasting my time now.
ReplyDeleteMythbusters took those "photos" and disproved the hoax lol the moon landing happen d.
Deletewith technical knowledge and background, the moon landing was faked. theres a video in you tube that one journalist confronted Neil Armstrong, the latter was requested to swear by putting right hand on the bible if theres a truth he landed on the moon. Neil Armstrong never complied. what this mean? All the astronauts involved lied to the world. if they dont lie they could have been dead on the spot. there are a lot of proofs, no man ever landed on the moon.
DeleteThanks for taking the time to write. I read all comments and emails that come through this site. I hope you will come back and read my response.
ReplyDeleteDo you still believe the moon landings were a hoax, even with the recent photos of the moon showing the landing sites? I think you should check out Wikipedia's "Moon landing conspiracy theories" and reconsider. But since this site is not about the moon landings, I'll move on to your other point.
You say you have found files from their own records where they admit to changing the Sabbath and being equal with the Lord. Two things about that...
1. Have you read the whole documents and put them together with the full teachings of the Catholic Church? Or have you just read the quotes in isolation? It's highly possible that the meaning is different than you think when you consider the full context of these things.
2. *Even if* the full context were to show that the Catholic Church is blatantly against the teachings of the Bible, that would only show the organization as *an* antichrist, not THE Antichrist of Rev. 13 and Dan. 7. The claims made against the Catholic Church regarding the 1260 days (years) and the 10 kingdoms (from the fall of the Roman Empire) are still false.
I had to post this. Christians stopped celebrating the Sabbath as early as 60 AD. That is around the time they started worshipping n Sunday as that is the day Jesus was resurrected. It was a celebration of life. That is hundreds f years before the Catholic church. It was also believed that the old laws were abolished (that is, nailed t the cross according to the bible) with Jesus' death, which signified salvation. Now the only thing we need to do is repent, and go oout and try to be the best person you can be. Also, according to the Book of Enoch and the calender that was given to him by God, the seventh day was estimated to be on a Tuesday. So while you are claiming to be holier-than-thou, doo your actual research. And before you say the Book of Enoch doesn't matter, it is the oldest book and was originally in the bible. It prophesied most of the events in the bible, then was taken out around 60 AD by a conference by the Jewish religious leaders about what books they would keep in the Old Testament/Torah (what?! It wasn't just the evil, satanic catholic church who changed things?!) Nope. Another funny thing abut the sabbath, as I was talking with a member of the CoG and informed her that the way she kept the Sabbath was wrong. The sabbath is not Saturday, but Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.
ReplyDeleteShe claimed that was not important.
Anyone else see the giant hypocrisy here? So it is evil of the Catholic church to "change the sabbath" but it is not important to keep the actual Sabbath?
I'm confused.
Thanks for your input, Anonymous. You've got some interesting points.
ReplyDelete--About worshiping on Sunday... Yes, church history and the Bible show Christians gathering on Sundays much, much earlier than the wmscog claims.
--About the old laws being abolished... Yes, that's the whole thing about the 'law of Christ.' It's all about grace.
--About the Book of Enoch and it's calendar... I haven't read this, but if it was denied inclusion in the Bible (or Torah), it's worth looking into why. From my research, books that were excluded were left out for good reason.
--About the sundown-to-sundown Sabbath... Yes, that is the traditional Jewish way to measure 24-hour days, and the method with the most Biblical support. The wmscog believes it should be sunrise-to-sunrise instead. If I haven't written an article about this, I can get that out for you sometime soon. And yes, that IS important to the wmscog because they use it to say that even the Jews don't keep their own calendar right.
--About your 'holier-than-thou, do your actual research' comment... I'm going to assume you are directing that to our wmscog friends who read this blog. :) And it's easy to get confused when they contradict themselves so much.
Genny i would love to see an article on the proper sabbath time, is it friday sundown, or saturday sunrise. I think if we are going to follow God's commands then it is extremly important that we do so correctly. Oh this is dated dec 2011 so if you did the article can you direct me to it, thanks
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry I'm a little late responding. This topic of sunset or sunrise has come up repeatedly in the forum at examiningthewmscog.com. Here's a link to one of the topics that discusses it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=239
Hope that helps!
Your information is totally false. Here's the proof, this is what you posted:
ReplyDeleteRev. 13:3-4 The beast suffered a fatal wound that was healed.
Claim: The papacy suffered a "deadly wound" in 1798 when the Pope was captured by Napoleon's general. The wound has been healing since then.
You're saying the World Mission Society Church of God teaches that?!?! however, that isn't true. The World Mission Society Church of God doesn't teach that. Wherever you got that info from is incorrect. That's different gospel because that isn't what that verse means. If you did hear that from the World Mission Society church of God, then shame on whoever taught you that. That's why it is very important not to teach different gospels. So because you just took someone's word for it and not correctly doing your own research, you've become a liar and are spreading rumors. Just like the pharisees. In John 7:45-52 they stated that "the Prophet (christ) doesn't come out from Galilee. But they were wrong, according to Isaiah 9:1-2 the Christ will come from Galilee. So you just fell into that same category of the pharisee's that spoke false gospel about Jesus. Whether I'm a Church of God member or not is irrelevant, i'm just pointing out your error.
That information about 1798 is from the WMSCOG's own Evidence Book. Are you saying the Evidence Book is incorrect? Would you like to reconsider this comment?
DeleteAnother false claim from you is this:
ReplyDeleteRev. 13:6 / Dan. 7:25 The beast speaks blasphemy and tries to change the times and law.
Reality: Official Catholic doctrine does not support the charge of blasphemy. Calendar issues are dealt with in other posts on this blog. The 10 Commandments are actually composed of 14 command statements. The Catholic Church still holds to all 10 Commandments, but they have combined them differently.
Have you ever read Catechism of the Catholic Church? That clearly shows that the catholic church took out the 2nd commandment, which is the commandment that testifies that we shouldn't make any idols. However the catholic church has made so many Idols of Virgin Mary, Crucifix's and Saints, which they worship. Deut 4:15-16 clearly shows that is wrong. They also changed the 4th commandment to "remember to keep holy the Lords day" it doesn't say seventh day and it doesnt say sabbath. They also changed the first commandment to "you shall not have STRANGE Gods before me" Everyone know's that's not the first commandment. Will you still insist that the catholic church has all the 10 commandments? Also show me the verse where God said it's ok to combine commandments. You are making great efforts, going out of your way to prove the World Mission Society Church of God wrong, however your information is wrong.
Yes, I have read this portion of the Catechism, have you? Or have you only read excerpts?
DeleteWhere does God say it's ok to combine commandments? Well, there are 14 or 15 individual commands within the "10 Commandments" so you have to combine some of them in order to end up with only 10.
Now about the statues of saints and the Virgin Mary and all... I don't particularly care for that either. Seeing how some people act in regards to those things... well I find it very distracting in my desire to worship God Himself. However, doesn't the Bible warn against judging by appearances? (John 7:24 and 1 Corinthians 10:7)
If you look at Catholic doctrine and talk with a Catholic who is educated about it, I'm sure you would find that they do not "worship" these things, despite how it looks. For those people who do *look* like they are worshiping these statues, we should let God be their judge because only He knows the heart.
Also, *if* God is somehow displeased with Catholic doctrine in this regard, the rest of the description of "the beast" still doesn't match the Catholic Church at this point in time.
As a jew I must comment. Several things that the WMSCOG does not understand (I also think this is universally Christian because of mistranslations).
ReplyDeleteRevelation is nothing more than Daniel(whom Judaism DOES NOT consider a prophet of Israel), Joel, Haggai and Zechariah in terms of how it was written. More than likely John of Patmos when writing this used these as his basis for Revelation. Judaism does not preach that the earth will end in the Messianic age but rather it will be an age of peace and tranquility where the sins of Adam and Eve will ultimately be forgiven.
As far as the Catholic Church and its teachings are there really any differences between the other various Christian denominations (IE Eastern Orthodox/Byzantine,Protestant etc..), no. Christianity as whole moved away from the teachings of the Torah and into the teachings of Jesus. Sunday worship for all we know COULD of been the 7th day (rather than our modern calender Saturday).
I also saw that you mentioned that the 10 commandements were 14 or 15. Jews have 613 commandements. Some only applied to the priests and as such can not be practiced today.
From a jewish standpoint, the WMSCOG CLEARLY violates the law on idol worship. If the law is no longer valid as the WMSCOG states, then why do they challenge other versions of Christanity by calling them idolators?
Judaism seems Christianity as being different in terms of who G-d is and the law. We as jews can not pick and say we will follow these laws and then state that these do not. That unfortunatly is what the WMSCOG does when it picks its arguments.
Thanks, Hal. And just for clarification, the "14 or 15 command statements" was just referring to the sections with the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:4-21).
ReplyDeleteI wonder what they say to the brothers and sisters who's names add up 666..
ReplyDeleteHow does WMSCOG "CLEARLY" violate the law on idol worship?
ReplyDeleteThe law on idolatry specifically states: "There shall be no other G-d than the Lord G-d".
ReplyDeleteThat is further stated in the Torah in Shemot (Exodus)20:
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me."
Vayikra (Leviticus)26:"You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."
And 2 notes in Devarim (Deuteronomy) 5:
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."
Devarim (Deuteronomy) 28:
" "Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen.’"
No where does it state that G-d has a name or that his name will be Ahn, Zhang...And in many of the churches, many people bow down and pray to pictures of Zhang which clearly violates the Torah. WMSCOG states that the law given to Moses (which if you read Devarim/Deuteronomy clearly states that anyone who attempts to change it shall be put to death) is no longer valid, yet WMSCOG decries other churches for having crosses or decries the jews for praying at the Kotel (Western Wall).
WMSCOG takes the term Elohim very incorrectly. Elohim does not denote 2 G-ds or a male and female diety. That is idol worship based upon BAAL and Asherah which were Phoenician dieties. The Mormons believe that Asherah is a female diety and the wife of BAAL. The term Elohim (the root word El in hebrew is G-d) and Ohim which means mighty one, hence it refers to G-ds divinity above all other gods and man. Genny has posted the word meaning on several her pages.