Studying, Family, and Lies -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

I'm continuing to answer comments sent in recently from World Mission Society Church of God members.  This one wanted me to study more and to know that they aren't a cult...

(I have only removed the location from this original comment--no other words--but I have fixed any spelling errors to help those needing to use the online translator.)

January 19, 2012, 1:07 AM, Wendi said...

I am a mother in Canada. Nearly all my family attends the Church of God. There are so so many misrepresentations in this blog. I understand that in the freedom to speak freely people can say some very vile and hurtful things. Many evil things have been done in the name of Christianity. History teaches us this.

Hello, Wendi.  I'm glad you wrote.  Yes, freedom of speech does include the freedom to speak harshly.  I've seen rude language come from all sides.  I myself have endured many horrible, insulting comments from WMSCOG members.  That is too bad.  We should all be respectful even if we disagree, and that's what I try to do.

About "misrepresentations"-- if you believe I have misrepresented scientific or historical facts, you should know that I do painstaking research for all my articles and document my sources so you can check these things for yourself.

If you believe I have misrepresented WMSCOG doctrine, you should know that what I write about has been explained to me through personal discussions with members and through official church documents.  If you believe the WMSCOG teaches something different, then I'm left to wonder why they would be so inconsistent in their doctrine.

If you believe I have misrepresented the behavior of the members, you should know that I write about the personal experiences of myself and my friends and family.  Perhaps your experience has been different.  I have noticed that, in general, members are much nicer to people who agree with them than they are with those who disagree or ask serious questions.

It would be more helpful if you would please give specific examples of the misrepresentations you are talking about.  I would be glad to clear them up or make corrections as needed.

This is a good church. But you need to hear more than a couple of lessons to fully make up your mind. Do you go to school and take one or two courses to become a doctor or teacher? No. If you truly want to know the truth, you must seek it - and the Church of God can give you those answers if you have an open heart and mind enough to give them a fair chance to do so. 

How many lessons would make for a "fair chance"?
No matter how much my friends or I have studied, we are continually told that we haven't studied enough, that if we only studied more then we would see.

What would you say to a Scientologist (for example), who kept telling you, "If you would only study more with us, it would make sense and you'd see we are teaching the truth"?

If something is false, no amount of studying can make it true.
My mind is open but not so open that my brains fall out (as the saying goes).

We are not a cult. Cults try to take you away from your family. Our church WANTS you to stay in your family, and love them to show Gods love to them, but people always have their own agendas. 

From the experiences of myself and my friends, the WMSCOG only wants you to stay close with your family if they do not object to their teachings.  We've seen our family members distance themselves, sometimes speaking mean and hateful words to us who are only trying to help, and sometimes to the point of removing themselves from the family.

How are we supposed to believe that the church wants the members to stay in their family when we see our loved ones refuse to join us for even the most important family events of weddings and funerals?  Or when we see a member threaten to divorce a questioning spouse, or a son/daughter stop communicating with their unbelieving parents?

I don't know whose agenda you are talking about, but if you'd really like me to believe that the WMSCOG does not break up families, then I will need to stop seeing and hearing bad examples like those I've mentioned, and start hearing (and seeing) more real life examples that what you say is true.

(Do you hear that, WMSCOG leaders?  Why don't you encourage your members to restore and maintain good relationships with their families, and to thoughtfully answer their concerns instead of avoiding them?)

Don't you know that what is in your heart will eventually come out your mouth (or in this case through your fingers in print)? Pray for truth to God! But then have the grace to hear it without prejudging first. Truth will remain, lies will always come out. Wendi, [location removed]

I hope you also will have the grace to read my articles here without prejudging first.

It's funny you mention "truth will remain, lies will come out." 
The WMSCOG believes lying for a 'good' cause is ok.  They call it a 'righteous lie.'  The thing is, who decides which situations are ok for lies and which are not?  Have you ever found anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said lying was acceptable?

Do you know, the WMSCOG taught that Ahnsahnghong and Zahng Gil-Jah did not have earthly spouses or natural children of their own.  What do they say about that now?

You are correct.  The truth will stand, and lies will eventually come out.

You seem like a sincerely nice person, Wendi.  I pray that you will be able to see the truth and understand that my intentions here are good.

Second Coming Christ and Traditions-- Responding to WMSCOG comments

I'm continuing to answer comments sent in recently from World Mission Society Church of God members.  This one focused on Ahnsahnghong as the second coming Christ and also touched on church traditions.

(I have not removed any words from the original comment, but I have fixed spelling errors to help anyone needing to use the online translator.)

January 17, 2012, 7:07 AM, Anonymous said...

I think that anyone can argue just about anything if they really wanted too. but when you think about all the traditions that most churches keep are never based on the bible. 

Thank you, Anonymous, for taking the time to write.  I appreciate hearing your perspective.

Do you have the tradition of celebrating your birthday with a cake and birthday candles and presents and a party?  What purpose does such a celebration serve?  Does it matter to you where that tradition came from?

Different traditions serve different purposes, of course.  The purpose of the traditions that churches keep is to help people connect with and understand God.

A friend of mine told me about a mission trip she took.  One of the 'traditions' (as you might call it) of the Christians in that area was that the Bible must not touch the ground.  They treated their Bibles such that they considered it disrespectful for it to be laid on the floor.

I can't think of a verse in the Bible that commanded that, can you?  So this tradition is not based on the Bible.  But does the tradition have value?  Yes, of course.

Purim and Hanukkah are celebrations that were not commanded by God.  The people chose to honor God and the memory of something He did by establishing these traditions.  Is that wrong?  No.  Even Jesus kept Hanukkah (John 10:22).

How can these churches keep Christmas and Sunday worship which is a fact in history that it was made to worship the sun God. 

Christmas and Sunday worship were made to honor Jesus, not the sun god.  I'll go into more detail in a future post.

When you read the bible Christ said he would come back a 2nd time and by him the one who restores all the truth we can recognize him as God but people have a fixed idea that God would never come in the flesh. But God is our Father, think about all you would do to save your children if you knew they were heading for danger. 

Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus will need to return to "restore truth"?  The WMSCOG gives the impression that Jesus failed at His first attempt because it didn't last.  Was Jesus a failure?  Of course not.

I know of two verses the WMSCOG uses to try to prove that the truth needs to be "restored."
Luke 18:8 ...when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?
The WMSCOG says this means that there will be no faith on the earth, but that's not what it says.  It says, "Will He find faith?"  They assume the answer to be no, that there will be no faith at all.

This is like the mom who leaves her children for a little while and says, "When I come back will I find you doing your chores?"  She does not expect a 'no' answer.  She expects a 'yes,' even if it's only some of the children.

The other verse is Hebrews 9:28 ...To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Christ's second coming will not be to "restore truth" by bring salvation from sin again.  The word for "salvation" here has to do with deliverance, survival, and safety.  It is also used in Luke 1:71, Acts 27:34, and Philippians 1:19.  So you see it is a different sense of salvation.

Jesus came 2000 years ago and at that time everybody knew God as Jehovah but the reason he came was to establish the new covenant by keeping Passover with bread and wine instead of lamb sacrifice as in old testament. 

The reason Jesus came was to satisfy our debt for our sin by becoming the perfect sacrifice, the Passover Lamb so that death (eternal, spiritual death) would pass over us.  The Passover and Jesus' fulfillment of it is filled with wonderful symbolism.  This is a good book about it.

Did you know that Jesus didn't keep Passover "with bread and wine instead of lamb."  The Jews had bread and wine with their Passover lamb as part of the Seder meal.  The disciples prepared the Passover (Mark 14:16) and they ate the meal (Luke 22:20, notice "after supper").

God suffered in [un]imaginable pain and promised us life thru the passover. After his death at his first coming this Passover was abolished. Passover is the way to eternal life because we can have God's flesh and blood just as we have our physical parents' DNA proving we a children of God. Then how could we have eternal life if the way was blocked. 

First, there have been people keeping the Passover throughout history.  It never "completely disappeared from the world" as the WMSCOG claims.

Second, if the way to eternal life was truly blocked, then "the gates of Hades" prevailed against the Church, which would deny Jesus' words in Matthew 16:18.

God said he had to come a second time just as in his first coming. Jesus was a very common name and he was persecuted by his people and eventually sacrificed by his people. it is the same now Christ ahn sahng hong came and restored the truth and it's not that people world mission society just follow a random person just because. Just as his first coming the disciples recognized him because he fulfilled prophecy as messiah. it is the same now and sooner or later this truth will come to light. 

Jesus will return in the same manner He left, not in the same way He came (Acts 1:11).

Was Ahnsahnghong "sacrificed by his people"?  I remember being told that he died of a brain aneurysm.

And please don't use the it's-the-same-now-as-2000-years-ago argument.  Anyone can claim to be the second coming of Christ and use that argument saying, "You don't believe me, and you are persecuting me.  It was the same with Jesus."

Maybe David Koresh was the second coming Christ?  (Yes, I'm being sarcastic here.)  After all, he had a common name, was persecuted, and even killed.  And I'm sure he would have told you that he fulfilled prophecy too.

And the reason we are so persistent when we preach is because we want people to be saved and we have an eager mind and heart just as our parents did coming here. 

I understand that persistence.  When you sincerely believe something, it comes out in the way you live.  If you sincerely believe in Ahnsahnghong, then I would expect you to preach about him.  And I do believe that you sincerely want the best for people.

That's why I'm here too.  I sincerely care for you and my sister and all the others in the WMSCOG, and that's why I'm so persistent in trying to show you that "Father Ahnsahnghong" and "Mother Jerusalem" do not deserve your devotion and worship.

Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

I've received several comments lately from members of the World Mission Society Church of God.  This one mainly has to do with the existence of "Mother God."  I'll respond to it in parts...

(I have not removed any words from the original comment, but I have fixed spelling errors to help anyone needing to use the online translator.)

December 14, 2011, 5:17 AM, Follower of Christ said...

God bless brothers and sisters =D! I attend The Church of God. At first I was a hard devoted Catholic... Just went to Sunday worship for one hour a week.... 

Thank you, Follower of Christ, for taking the time to write to me.  I must say, I'm surprised that you describe yourself as being a "hard, devoted Catholic" but only went to church for "one hour a week."  Seems like you were missing something in your walk of faith, and I'm sorry for you about that.

Then...Well after a Family member Told me about MOTHER GOD I couldn't help but just hear him out, So later after hearing his "nonsense" at the time I would gladly introduce him to my Catholic Church... Well the opposite happened.. When I went I asked about Mother God and I brought my own bible so I would know if they changed something. Anyway Long story short all of the teachings from the church are in the bible. I told myself many times and prayed to GOD that if this was a false church I would leave, with just finding one thing changed in the bible... That was 7 months ago.. To this day I still have the same mentality. If I find one thing different I will leave, Because from what I know, The BIBLE is the word of GOD nothing else. 

You are right that the Bible is the word of God.  However, the WMSCOG does change things in the Bible, though not necessarily the words on the page.  They change the meanings (especially by removing them from their contexts), they miss the finer meanings that you can see by looking at the original language, and they add things not written in the Bible--assumptions that contradict the full message of the Bible.

Many say there is no where that mother GOD is mentioned.. Well allow me to Leave you all with some verses of the bible.. Not my words just GODS lol New King James Version

I'm glad you wrote this.  It shows the chain of verses the WMSCOG uses.  Unfortunately, these verses are taken out of context and don't mean what the WMSCOG tells you they mean.  It's dangerous to try to match up verses like this without considering the context and the full message of the Bible.  (I'll talk more on that later.)

Who is Jerusalem? 
Galatians 4:26 = but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Well that tells me she is in heaven and is my, your, our mother... But I still want to know who she is to GOD.

Galatians 4:26 is not talking about a particular woman in heaven.  Click here for a study on what Galatians 4:26 is talking about and how the WMSCOG misinterprets this verse.

Who is she to GOD? 
Revelation 21:2 and 21:10 = Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from GOD, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. / And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the Holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from GOD. )
So I understand so far that Jerusalem is our mother and she is a bride.... 

You've already started out with an incorrect assumption from Gal. 4:26, and now you are trying to pair it with Revelation 21:2,10.  Ahnsahnghong himself wrote that the New Jerusalem was a place, not a person.  The New Jerusalem here represents the Church, just as it does in Gal. 4:26.  I know the WMSCOG objects to the Bride in Revelation being the Church, but I will address that in more detail in the future.

But who is she the bride to? 
Revelation 21: 9 = Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."
Oh wow so before you learn that she is our mother and she is a bride, a bride to the lamb. 

Now this one is in the correct context.  Rev. 21:9 does belong with Rev. 21:2,10.  Yes, the Bride is the wife of the Lamb.  The Church is also described as the Bride of Christ in other verses.

Who is this lamb?
John 1:29 = The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of GOD who takes away the sin of the world!"
Oh wow well we all know Jesus took away the sins of the world and only he did that so he must be that lamb he speaks of right? 

Yes, correct.  The Lamb referred to in Revelation is Jesus.

Well is there more to Jerusalem? Answer Sure is... =D
Isaiah 62:7 = And give HIM no rest till He establishes and He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
So we know now that Jerusalem is our mother, Gods Bride, and the earth will praise her... but wait I thought you only give praise and honor and glory to only GOD?
1 Timothy 1:17 = Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to GOD who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Wow so if God said he will make Jerusalem the praise of the earth and we can only give praise to GOD, then she must be GOD......

Here you've matched two verses incorrectly again and made assumptions that don't fit.  The Bible does say that God will not allow His glory or praise to be given to another (Isaiah 42:8).  But does that mean that nothing and no one else can get any kind of praise?  Check these verses (using NKJV):
Genesis 49:8; 2 Samuel 14:25; 1 Kings 10:1-9; Proverbs 27:2; Proverbs 31:28-31; Ecclesiastes 4:2; Song of Solomon 6:9

You also need to see the context of Is. 62:7.  Keep reading.  Here's Isaiah 62:9,
"But those who have gathered it shall eat it [Jerusalem's grain],
And praise the Lord;
Those who have brought it together shall drink it in My holy courts."
It's not that Jerusalem is receiving God's praise and therefore must be God.
It's that Jerusalem is causing people to praise God.

By the way, did you notice the verse you referenced, 1 Timothy 1:17 says that there is only one God (singular) who alone is wise?  The only way this reconciles with the WMSCOG's insistence of two gods is if the second "Mother God" is not wise, because only one is wise.

My brothers and sisters all the verses were from the bible. The bible isn't about stories... Its a book of prophecy. As you can see it speaks of Jerusalem, How she is God and how she is our mother and She is God's wife... We are all God's children. Please open up your eyes.. none of this is a CULT.. all teachings are from Christ Ahnsahnghong.

I know it doesn't feel nice to have your beloved church called a 'cult.'  But if you want other Christians to consider the idea that they have been following the deceptions of Satan, then you must also be willing to consider the possibility for yourself.

If Ahnsahnghong was God, he (and the WMSCOG) wouldn't have so many flaws in his teachings, Bible references, and historical facts.  He wouldn't have ANY flaws, but he does.  Therefore Ahnsahnghong was NOT God.

I know it first sounds really insane and you have every right in the world to doubt.. I sure did at first... But Hey if it's in the bible I'm not arguing with it.. As of Ahnsahnghong , there is so much evidence and proof of him being the HOLY SPIRIT. =D Go to THE WORLD MISSION SOCIETY CHURCH OF GOD to learn more... all in the bible.. God bless brothers and sisters. =) http://english.watv.org/ 

There is so much evidence and proof of Ahnsahnghong NOT being the Holy Spirit.  Please look deeper into the Bible besides just the verses and explanations the WMSCOG gives you.

Thanks again for writing.  I do see that you sincerely want to follow God, and I hope that you seriously consider the material presented here.  I'm also sorry I was unable to answer your comment sooner.  I hope you'll be back to respond.

More WMSCOG comments and responses to come...