Reader Responses to the Conversation with Cyrus

Cyrus (a World Mission Society Church of God member) and I have been having a very interesting conversation for the past several months.  You can read it in the comment section of this post: Conversation with Cyrus, a WMSCOG member.

Although I have limited the conversation to Cyrus and myself, I have been pleased to hear from readers who wish to chime in and thought you all would also like to hear what others have been saying.

Anonymous wrote on October 23, 2012:

"Genny
Very good comments about objective and subjective. This make pretty clear what these people really want to do with others person.
Pls keep it up. You are doing an excellent job.
God will keep you in the right way"

Thanks for the encouragement. :)  This was when we were talking about evidence in favor of Ahnsahnghong and the WMSCOG, and the need for objective (factual, provable) evidence rather than subjective (based on opinion and interpretation) evidence.

"Andi" wrote on November 8, 2012:

"Aw..God the mother is the wife of Jesus? Sounds like incest to me. Surely, the "bride" refers to Jerusalem, a place, not a particular person. Cyrus, you should attend your english 101 class. "

Thanks for your input Andi.  The idea of whether this is incest ("God the Mother" also being the Bride of Jesus) has been debated in the forum at examiningthewmscog.com.  And in Ahnsahnghong's books He repeatedly describes the Heavenly Jerusalem as a place, not a person.  But honestly I think Cyrus' English and writing skills are great, so I'm not sure where your last line came from.

"Daniel" wrote on November 16, 2012:

"Hi Cyrus,

My name is Daniel... I have read through this whole discussion and I am a little curious about one thing. It's something you said in your last post.

"There are more prophecies you havent listed there in April 2010 that point to the founder of our temple, Christ Ahnsahnghong. The bible is so vast. But if I gave them to you, would you look for a way to disprove them? Maybe I'll let them stay within the church. There are quite a bit missing. Christ Ahnsahnghong said there is a treasure hidden for ages. So let it be for our church members."

If this man is truly the second coming of Jesus Christ, then why would he want his prophecies to remain a secret? When Jesus came the first time, He repeatedly claimed to be the Messiah and God by quoting Old Testament prophecies. His followers pointed out many more (Isaiah 53, Isaiah 9:6, Daniel 7, Psalm 22, Isaiah 52, Hosea 11:1, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5, Zechariah 9:9, Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 2, Psalm 110, Joel 2, etc.)

None of these prophecies were "hidden". They were actually trumpeted from the rooftops by the early Christians! Jesus fulfilled all prophecies of the Messiah in the Old Testament, and for that reason only, Jews accepted him as their Savior.

Now, let's assume that WMSCOG is the new revelation of Jesus Christ. That would make your group the new "early Christians", the newest believers of the revelation of God. In order to convince a world full of Christians, Jews and Muslims that Ahnsahnghong is the Christ, why would your group refuse, or avoid, showing us the prophecies he fulfilled? We need to know the prophecies in order to believe! Jesus did not hide any prophetic fulfillment. He made the Scriptures clear, and He didn't hide or confuse any meanings.

And if you believe that Ahnsahnghong is Christ, that means he must fulfill every prophecy in both Old and New Testaments regarding the Messiah. Please, we need to know how this can be possible.

If you want many other people to be saved, you shouldn't need to hide your revelations for only the church to see. Jesus did not establish a church like that. He did not have "treasures hidden for the ages". He invited all people, from all nations and religions to come and see that he was the Messiah. Can't Ahnsahnghong do the same?"

That's a good point, Daniel.  There should be no need to hide prophecies and doctrine and revelations from the world.  I know of no legitimate church that does so.  Any church that truly wants to spread their message to the world will make it as available as possible.

The WMSCOG doesn't make their books available to the public, even though Ahnsahnghong says in the preface of The Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life, "This book is worthy to be read not only by the general believers but also by pastors and professors of theological schools."

And then he says, "Please study this book seriously and visit us."  He meant his book to be read by non-members who would then visit the church, but the WMSCOG will not sell it to non-members.  Isn't there something wrong with that?

Anonymous wrote on November 29, 2012:
(I'm not publishing the email address that was included.)

"I think that it is important that the proper wording is use....the teaching of WMSCOG never said "the Passover disappeared" It was ABOLISHED at the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. Christ Ahnsahnghong RESTORED the Passover....how many "Cult" religion you know or heard talk about the "Passover" In all honesty, cults dont talk about the Passover and let alone put any of God's commands into practice....thats should be a red flag to any true christians....2000 years ago Jesus pointed out those who are God's people, people who love God-im sure your familiar with "the Wise and Foolish Builder" Matt7:24-27...and Jesus also testify in the same chapter Matt7:21-23
My email [removed]"

I appreciate hearing from you, but if you think it's very important that the proper wording is used regarding whether Passover disappeared, then you should correct the WMSCOG.  They do use that word, and you can even see it on their main website about the Feasts of God.

I think you are letting your feelings get in the way of your thinking regarding what a "cult" would not teach.  Do you consider Mormonism or the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult, or a heretical church?  They teach many Biblical practices and follow many of God commands, but their core teachings are drastically different from mainstream Christianity.  (Mormons believe there are many Gods and that man may become a God.  Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was not God.)  Plus they are also categorized as cults according to their behavior.

Anonymous (the same one?) wrote on November 29, 2012:

"Genny......you said "I'd like to talk more about what is required for salvation. Imagine this situation. You and I happened to meet in person, but just while we were greeting, I am hit by the bullet of a drive-by shooter. I am lying there, on the sidewalk, bleeding (but conscious) with only a few minutes left to live. What would you tell me that I needed"

The only answer to that is reflect back 2000 years ago during Jesus' crucifixion, two robbers that were crucified. One rebuked him but the other had a repentent heart and believe in heart(soul)Jesus as his savior. I would say to you "Do you accept and believe that Christ Ahnsahnghong and Heavenly Mother who is the Spirit and Bride-Wife of the Lamb as your Savior?" and the rest is up to God. God sees whats in every man's heart theres no escaping. But only by believing and accepting the existance of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, like the robber that believed and accepted Jesus, can anyone be saved...!! "

In my experience, the WMSCOG does not teach that "believing and accepting the existence of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother" is enough for salvation.  Perhaps you should double check that with your pastor or deacon.  They have always preached to me that faith is not enough.

"tru sagacity" wrote on November 30, 2012:

"Genny....

I’ve been following your conversation with Cyrus who happens to be a member of World Mission Society-Church of God. In life I have come to learn how erroneous Man have shown throughout history. That is our very flaw of our sinful nature which we also know as arrogant. I commend you for the bible vs. “ Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”--1 John 4:1 And as christians we should test the spirits, but with LOVE in our hearts. It breaks my heart to see that your initial intent was to test the Spirits yet display a very offensive Head-Liner. Unless your true motive was to expose WMSCOG as a Cult Religion, and the general public who view your page receive a misconception about the WMSOCOG and the message the church brings. The thing about all this is really irrelevant, because everything has been set in motion. Where there is chaos, God already set order and we can see God’s work (Prophecies) being revealed in the Age of the Holy Spirit. You both can make arguing points all day, but in reality God already spoken and prophesied in the book 2 Cor 3: 6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” You can clearly see its affect, this is what’s happening. Its dividing each one of us from seeing the truth and placing doubts in our hearts and minds. Further more as it is written in the book of Heb 8: 10-11 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” As you and I can come to understand its not our extensive study, accumulated knowledge or what we think is the right interpretation of the bible that defies which person or beliefs has the truth.What you may not know about WMSCOG is that they are against and taught not to get our selves involve with debates, that can turn out to an on going “I’m right and your wrong” (allowing satan to place doubt and stir negative/hate/anger attitude towards a goal, to saving souls).... but you read the verses so I hope it is clear to you. WMSCOG express this to members to not do, yet our sinful nature invites us to disobey, which leads to all misunderstanding and views that truly represents WMSCOG. "

and

"WMSCOG are to relate what the bible teaches, practice the examples that were taught, set by our Lord Jesus for his children to follow. Members of WMSCOG follow the prophecies and the commands that Jesus commanded his children to do. Members of WMSCOG are active in the 10 talent movement prophesied in the Scripture, so they are encourage to preach and look for the scattered sheep. God’s sheep who hear and recognize his voice and follow him. You might already know these verses to be in agreement those who are God’s children and reasons why not everyone that has eyes, ears, mind and heart have absolute truth and understanding....I list a few....John 10:26-27...John 8:42-47...Matt 13:11.....Many who become members are quick and eager to spread the good news of what they have heard and learn, even though they don’t have all the studies put in, so they can or may come out pushy, unknowledgeable, or lack tact. Its not an over night thing, but their hearts in the right place and in time growing in the faith, slowly shed old negative habits(sinful flesh).

With everything said, we should be slow with our tongue and not pass judgement on others. We should look at ourselves and judge only ourselves, after all are we not all born with sin...?? and isn’t God the judge of us all...!?! I ask that you reconsider posting sites like this one, but if you have concerns don’t make it public, but pray about it and let God handle it... Id like to finish this conversing with a quote from “Teachings of Mother” taught in the WMSCOG....”A Beautiful mind has no hate, and brings forth a PERFECT ‘LOVE’.”

Ps. if you want an objective proof to WMSCOG in their belief of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, God summed it all up in these verses, Romans 1:19-20... Rev. 21:9... Rev.22:17 and in truth all 66 Testaments is practically screaming the Words Father and Mother......( This is how you should pray “ Our Father who is in Heaven......” in Gal 4:26 “but the Jerusalem that is Above is free, and She is Our Mother...” ) if one is to have a spiritual understanding (not the physical eyes and ears, or heart) then you will see that the verses are mated to see the secrets that has been hidden and sealed through all ages, until NOW......and in relations to your Bible verse 1 John 4:1 this is how a spirit is tested....God Bless You...!!! <3"

You sent the same thing by email, and I've appreciated the exchange we had there.  Since you also posted this as a comment, you must have wanted this published for everyone to read.  Therefore, I will also share my response...

Do you mean the headliner "Encountering the Cult of Ahnsahnghong" with the word "cult"?  I would agree with your point if I was just throwing the term around lightly without thought, but people visiting my webpage need for information need to know that this group has been labeled as such by experts in the field.  It is not my own label.  There is plenty of information available on my blog and my linked resources for people to investigate whether this is reasonable.  Also, the WMSCOG already had a well-formulated response to being called a cult, so it is not new or unexpected to them as an organization.

My main intent with the conversation (and the whole website) is not to get people out of the WMSCOG, but my main purpose is to educate people about what the WMSCOG teaches and how it differs from Christianity and how to understand a loved one who believes it.  If the information helps people to leave the WMSCOG or not join in the first place, then I admit I am happy for that.

Yes, I agree that a person can have a whole lot of knowledge, but still not have the truth.
I'm not sure if you are saying that Cyrus does not represent the views of the WMSCOG and is causing people to misunderstand what the WMSCOG teaches.  I have discovered that the WMSCOG seems to teach different things in different place, so I would not be surprised if you think he misunderstands the WMSCOG.
If you are saying that the WMSCOG teaches not to get involved with discussions on doctrine--why?  Are they worried that you might hear ideas to contradict what you have been taught?  It seems to me that the WMSCOG are happy to have discussion when it's them telling others their church is wrong, but they are not ok with discussions in which they have to hear that they themselves might have it wrong.

I would expect someone who truly believes in their faith to live by it.  I live by my faith, and I am not surprised that WMSCOG members live by theirs (even though I think they have been taught incorrectly about many things).

I did pray about it a lot before I started the website, and I did pray and try other things before writing online at all in any forums even before that.  As for passing judgment, we are to be careful how we judge because the same measure will be used to judge us.  We must call sin for what it is, but correct others with love.  If you believe what you have said here, then you should also consider asking the WMSCOG to not pass judgment on other churches and to take down the many blogs, videos, and websites that severely judge Catholics and other Christian churches.  If they have such concerns about other churches, do you think they should not make it public but let God handle it?

If all 66 books of the Bible are "practically screaming" about "father and mother," then don't you think other churches and Bible scholars would have seen it by now?  The WMSCOG's interpretation of Gal. 4:26 is flawed from the beginning.  You can read about it here: http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/11/galatians-426-part-1.html
If you are going to "mate" verses that have similar words, you have to use good scholarship to do it, or you will end up with faulty doctrine, which unfortunately is what has happened with the WMSCOG's mated verses.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I do care about what happens to you and your friends in the WMSCOG.  If I didn't, I wouldn't try so hard to share these things with you.

 Happy New Year to you all!