I have not changed or removed anything in these comments.
On July 31 at 10:40 pm, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" in response to my comment --
Genny wrote: Hi again. I assume you are the same person who wrote to ask if I celebrate Christmas and Easter. I think I did not make myself clear. I said nothing about December 25 because that date itself has minimal significance to me. I know full well (as should all Christians) that we do not know the exact date of Jesus' birth.Yes, there is still a remaining significance to me. If you were going to choose a time of year to celebrate the birth of Jesus, the time of the winter solstice would be meaningful. The nights get longer and longer, and just when you might lose hope that darkness will win, the season turns. Daytime begins to lengthen again. The light triumphs, if you will.
Anonymous wrote: Genny, so you acknowledged that Dec 25 is not the birthday of Jesus Christ then, and you are making yourself clear that this date has a minimal significance to you, meaning there is still a remaining significance to you so as to say.
Jesus is the light of the world, and He has triumphed over darkness -- John 8:12 and 12:46; Matthew 4:16.
This was not from a WMSCOG member, but it fits right in with this topic...
On August 6 at 10:47 am, James posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --
Thanks, James. That was really interesting. Here is another comment about Christmas...The sad thing in all of this is that there is absolutely NO evidence, historically speaking, that December 25 was a pagan holiday before it was a Christian one. This is a bit of sloppy scholarship and old wives tales conflated over the generations.
At most, the Romans had two sun cults. The original, dating back to the centuries before Christ, Sol Indiges, had a feast on December 11 - NOT December 25. The other sun cult was the cult of Sol Invictus, which was actually the importation of Syrian Mythraism into Roman society by the Emperor Aurelian in the late third century AD. December 25 has never been specifically identified as a holiday for Sol Invictus, and the earliest records of a late December celebration of Sol Invictus are no older than the fourth century AD (mid 300's).
So, there's no evidence that there was a holiday for the sun in late December until long after Christ.
What we do have in some evidence, however, is that some Christian groups were celebrating the Nativity in the early to mid-200's. What we also have is the simple reality that December 25 was calculated by the early church by adding 9 months to March 25 - the Annunciation. And March 25 is calculated from Luke's statement in the first chapter of his Gospel that Gabriel came to Mary in "the sixth month" - which in the calendar he most likely observed introduced by Alexander the Great, translates to late March to early April by our Gregorian calendar.
None of this is to say that December 25 is exactly right. It could be off by days, weeks, or months. What's important is that there is no evidence from antiquity that the early church derived its holidays from the pagan calendar.
On July 31 at 10:48 pm, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --
Genny wrote: I happily remember the birth of Jesus all year long. Yes, I sing Christmas hymns with my children even in the summer. I especially celebrate Jesus' birth in December because that's when the world puts a focus on it, and it's especially nice to celebrate in unison.and (a few minutes later at 10:52 pm) --
Anonymous wrote: On this, you clearly remember the birth of Jesus by singing Christmas songs and you believe that celebrating the birth of Jesus with everybody in the whole world because this is the day when the whole world puts their focus on it and it is very nice to celebrate in unison with them. Although you do not know what day is the birthday of Jesus, you simply mean that you can celebrate the birthday of Jesus any day of the year as you want to. So ,do you also mean you can celebrate the birthday of Jesus Christ many times a year as you want too?
You believe that it is wrong to celebrate Jesus birth on a date that is not His actual birthday, and that we shouldn't just choose any date. You also believe it is wrong of me to celebrate Jesus birth on many different days. Do I understand your objections correctly?Genny wrote: As for the day, though, if you are talking about specific gatherings such as with my family or church, I can honestly say that I celebrate at least 5 or 6 different days. You see, it is the reason for the celebration, not the date of Dec. 25, that is important to me.
Anonymous wrote: So, you acknowledged that you celebrate the birthday of Jesus even 5 or 6x in different days because it is not the date that is important to you but the reason for the celebration. You also know very well that you follow your own thoughts in doing this!
Reflect on this... do you have children? When do you celebrate their birthdays? How about the rest of the people in your family? How about your own birthday? Do you ever celebrate on a day that is not the actual birthday?
Among my family and friends, we often have birthday celebrations that do not fall on the actual birthday of the person being honored. This year, my son celebrated his birthday on three different days -- once with friends, and twice with two different parts of the family. Are you saying that is wrong? If I can't celebrate my child's birthday with family and friends on his actual birthday, am I prohibited from choosing a different day for us to celebrate in unison? Would you like to give me a verse from the Bible that forbids my doing this?
I happily remember my children's birthdays all year round too, because I am so thankful to have them a part of my life. I will gladly tell them stories about their births any time they ask, without making them wait until their actual birthday. When I hear a particular song or see a particular picture or just have a passing thought about their births, I will praise God once again for the blessings He gave me. I won't put the thoughts aside simply because it's "not the right day." It is the same when I think about the birth of Jesus. You would say this is wrong?
On July 31 at 11:42 pm, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --
Genny, Is this too much for you answer? I understand how you feel! But I will listen to what you say and make a beneficial decision out of it. When you are ready to post all of my comments!!No, it's not too much for me to answer. I'm just limited on time, and working through all the comments as I am able. If you would put a name on your comments, it would make it easier to know which are yours, and which are from someone else. You don't have to leave an email address with your name, and I don't mind if you choose a pseudonym.
I hope you'll be back. There are still many more comments to go.
I actually believe these are insignificant arguments because whether we celebrate it on 25th december or any other day it does not matter! But what matters is that we are saved by the blood that Jesus shed on the cross. It is the faith that we put on the finished work of Jesus! By him is preached to us the forgiveness of sins!
ReplyDeleteI would also add that the whole world remembers that love came down ona particular day! So why not rejoice on that day? Whether i celebrate it or not i have the assurance of salvation. This is central theme of the bible!
"This is central theme of the bible!" oh, really?? that's unique.
DeleteI think she meant salvation is the theme of the Bible, not the day of Jesus's birth (if that's what you were thinking).
DeleteLook up the documentary "the star of Bethlehem" this doesn't prove when Jesus was born no one knows but this scientifically and astrologically proves that the star the wise men saw that stopped over the Manager were Jesus laid stopped on dec.25th.
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