You may have read my previous post, Who Is the Bride, where I looked at Bible verses using metaphors of a bride or wife of God. If you remember, the WMSCOG leader I spoke to was adamant that the Church was NEVER referred to as the Bride. But the Scriptures do indeed show that the "Bride" or "Wife" of the Lord is not a female God, but the collective people of God--the Israelites / the Church.
This week I happened to watch a WMSCOG produced video, and I was shocked to see that in its effort to show the Catholic Church as the great prostitute (from Revelation), they unwittingly admit that the Church IS the Bride after all!
You can see this video yourself on YouTube. There are actually several of the same video available to view. It's called "The Identity of 666." The video is 7:32 minutes long, but the revealing part is found at about 0:37.
The subtitles say (and I'm quoting, even the verse reference is there):
"In the Bible, "woman" refers to "church." (Ephesians 5:23)
So, the prostitute means the "Antichrist church" that does not follow her husband, Christ."
Those are the WMSCOG's own words! So if the "Antichrist church" does not follow her husband, Christ, then we can understand that the true church does follow her husband, who is Christ.
Here's Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
Caught in their own contradiction once again!
Wednesday, September 29, 2010
Tuesday, September 28, 2010
Elohim, Part 3
So the question I left with last time was...
If Elohim is a singular God, why did he speak of "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7, and in Isaiah 6:8?
I believe in the Trinity, so I would like to think that God is speaking to Himself as in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But these verses are not what the concept of the Trinity is based on, and it is not necessary that God is speaking to His own Trinity.
A single person speaking in terms of "us," "we," and "our" when only meaning his own one self? It happens in everyday life...
Have you heard of Queen Victoria, when she was not happy, saying, "We are not amused." She didn't say "I am not amused" although that's what she meant. This "royal we" happens with rulers all the time. You can even look up "royal we" on Wikipedia--it's a well known phenomenon.
How about phrases like these. Have you ever used these and really meant "I" or "me"?...
"Oh, yes, we'll be there!"
"Give us a chance!"
This happens with us regular people too.
Here is an example from the Bible:
Daniel 2:36
This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king.
Daniel talks about himself as "we" instead of "I" when it was really Daniel alone who received the interpretation of the dream and was taken to the king. (See Daniel 2:19 & 24)
The "royal we" is one thing happening with these verses in Genesis and Isaiah. But I want to show you something else. A leader (like a King or Queen) who has a council, a group of their closest advisors, will use "we" when addressing his council. It doesn't mean the other members of the council are also kings. It happens today and through history, and you can observe it in the Bible. Watch how King Ahab used "we" and "I":
2 Chronicles 18:5
Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, four hundred men, and said to them, “Shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?”
So they said, “Go up, for God will deliver it into the king’s hand.” King Ahab says, "Shall we go to war..., or shall I refrain?" His council of prophets answers, "Go." This "go" is not "take your army and all of you (plural) go"--it's a command for "you (singular) go."
Not that God actually needs advisors, but could He have a royal council which He converses with? Yes! Check out these verses...
Jeremiah 23:18 & 22 (NIV)
For which of them has stood in the council of the LORD,
to see or hear His word?...
But if they had stood in My council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people,
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
"They" in these verses are the false prophets. They did not know what went on in God's council.
1 Kings 22:19-22
Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left. And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’What a vision of the royal council of God Micaiah had! Here's God allowing His angels to offer suggestions, and He accepts one of them.
Job 1:6 (NIV)
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 2:1 (NIV)
On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.
Here it is again--God surrounded by His angels for a meeting.
So there you go--God sometimes refers to Himself with the "royal we" because He is KING and has His heavenly council about Him. It does NOT mean that He is speaking to another God with Him.
The conclusion is that Elohim uses a plural suffix with singular adjectives/verbs/etc. not to indicate plural Gods, but one God who is superior, majestic, great, and absolute. And that He is.
Those of us who believe in the Trinity, the three-in-one God, can see hints of the Trinity in this interesting plural form of Elohim, used in a singular sense to describe God. That, supported by the rest of Bible's insistence that there is only one God, makes it clear that indeed, there is only one true God.
But if God made humans in His image, and there are both male and female, doesn't that have to mean that there is a male God for the male image and a female God for the female image (as the WMSCOG claims)? No. But that's a topic for next time...
If Elohim is a singular God, why did he speak of "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7, and in Isaiah 6:8?
I believe in the Trinity, so I would like to think that God is speaking to Himself as in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But these verses are not what the concept of the Trinity is based on, and it is not necessary that God is speaking to His own Trinity.
A single person speaking in terms of "us," "we," and "our" when only meaning his own one self? It happens in everyday life...
Have you heard of Queen Victoria, when she was not happy, saying, "We are not amused." She didn't say "I am not amused" although that's what she meant. This "royal we" happens with rulers all the time. You can even look up "royal we" on Wikipedia--it's a well known phenomenon.
How about phrases like these. Have you ever used these and really meant "I" or "me"?...
"Oh, yes, we'll be there!"
"Give us a chance!"
This happens with us regular people too.
Here is an example from the Bible:
Daniel 2:36
This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king.
Daniel talks about himself as "we" instead of "I" when it was really Daniel alone who received the interpretation of the dream and was taken to the king. (See Daniel 2:19 & 24)
The "royal we" is one thing happening with these verses in Genesis and Isaiah. But I want to show you something else. A leader (like a King or Queen) who has a council, a group of their closest advisors, will use "we" when addressing his council. It doesn't mean the other members of the council are also kings. It happens today and through history, and you can observe it in the Bible. Watch how King Ahab used "we" and "I":
2 Chronicles 18:5
Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, four hundred men, and said to them, “Shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?”
So they said, “Go up, for God will deliver it into the king’s hand.” King Ahab says, "Shall we go to war..., or shall I refrain?" His council of prophets answers, "Go." This "go" is not "take your army and all of you (plural) go"--it's a command for "you (singular) go."
Not that God actually needs advisors, but could He have a royal council which He converses with? Yes! Check out these verses...
Jeremiah 23:18 & 22 (NIV)
For which of them has stood in the council of the LORD,
to see or hear His word?...
But if they had stood in My council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people,
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
"They" in these verses are the false prophets. They did not know what went on in God's council.
1 Kings 22:19-22
Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left. And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’What a vision of the royal council of God Micaiah had! Here's God allowing His angels to offer suggestions, and He accepts one of them.
Job 1:6 (NIV)
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 2:1 (NIV)
On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.
Here it is again--God surrounded by His angels for a meeting.
So there you go--God sometimes refers to Himself with the "royal we" because He is KING and has His heavenly council about Him. It does NOT mean that He is speaking to another God with Him.
The conclusion is that Elohim uses a plural suffix with singular adjectives/verbs/etc. not to indicate plural Gods, but one God who is superior, majestic, great, and absolute. And that He is.
Those of us who believe in the Trinity, the three-in-one God, can see hints of the Trinity in this interesting plural form of Elohim, used in a singular sense to describe God. That, supported by the rest of Bible's insistence that there is only one God, makes it clear that indeed, there is only one true God.
But if God made humans in His image, and there are both male and female, doesn't that have to mean that there is a male God for the male image and a female God for the female image (as the WMSCOG claims)? No. But that's a topic for next time...
Sunday, September 26, 2010
Elohim, Part 2
Previously, I looked at the use of the word Elohim. Although it has a plural suffix, when referring to the God of the Israelites it is surrounded by singular verbs, adjectives, and pronouns. This type of structure in the Hebrew language indicates that the noun is not plural, but majestic, superior, great, or absolute. The noun itself is still singular, as shown by its verbs, adjectives and pronouns, but it's meaning is magnified.
Throughout the Bible, God repeatedly tell the Israelites that He is the only God to be worshipped. And this is the essence of the first commandment:
Exodus 20:3
You shall have no other gods before [besides] me.
And yet, the WMSCOG will show you the word Elohim and its plural suffix and insist that there are two Gods. They try to prove this using a few verses where God speaks and refers to "us" or "our":
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...
The WMSCOG combines this with Gen. 1:27 to try to show that there is both a male and female God. I'll deal with that another day. But right now I just want to see whether these verses talk about two gods or one. God talks about "us" making man in "our" image. Does that mean there are plural Gods?
Do you see the part just before that which says, "Then God said"? The "said" in that phrase is singular--He said. If there were plural Gods, it would have been a plural verb--They said. And then look a little farther to verse 27. I'm going to type it out here--notice what I've put in bold:
So God [He] created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
If there were truly two Gods, this passage would have said, "God [they] created man in their own image, in the image of God they created him; male and female they created them." But it doesn't. There is only ONE God.
Genesis 3:22 (in the Garden of Eden)
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil....
Genesis 11:7 (the Tower of Babel)
Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
Isaiah 6:8 (Isaiah's Commission)
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying:
“ Whom shall I send,
And who will go for Us?”
In these verses, God talks about "us" again. Is there more than one God? No. Every time we read that Elohim said something, it is ALWAYS a singular verb--He said. We also read that He (not They) sent Adam from the Garden of Eden, that He (not They) scattered the people from the Tower of Babel, and that He (not They) answered Isaiah.
There is only ONE God.
Why would any singular individual talk about themselves as "we" or "us"? It happens. I'll write about that next time...
Click here to go on to Part 3.
Throughout the Bible, God repeatedly tell the Israelites that He is the only God to be worshipped. And this is the essence of the first commandment:
Exodus 20:3
You shall have no other gods before [besides] me.
And yet, the WMSCOG will show you the word Elohim and its plural suffix and insist that there are two Gods. They try to prove this using a few verses where God speaks and refers to "us" or "our":
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...
The WMSCOG combines this with Gen. 1:27 to try to show that there is both a male and female God. I'll deal with that another day. But right now I just want to see whether these verses talk about two gods or one. God talks about "us" making man in "our" image. Does that mean there are plural Gods?
Do you see the part just before that which says, "Then God said"? The "said" in that phrase is singular--He said. If there were plural Gods, it would have been a plural verb--They said. And then look a little farther to verse 27. I'm going to type it out here--notice what I've put in bold:
So God [He] created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
If there were truly two Gods, this passage would have said, "God [they] created man in their own image, in the image of God they created him; male and female they created them." But it doesn't. There is only ONE God.
Genesis 3:22 (in the Garden of Eden)
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil....
Genesis 11:7 (the Tower of Babel)
Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
Isaiah 6:8 (Isaiah's Commission)
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying:
“ Whom shall I send,
And who will go for Us?”
In these verses, God talks about "us" again. Is there more than one God? No. Every time we read that Elohim said something, it is ALWAYS a singular verb--He said. We also read that He (not They) sent Adam from the Garden of Eden, that He (not They) scattered the people from the Tower of Babel, and that He (not They) answered Isaiah.
There is only ONE God.
Why would any singular individual talk about themselves as "we" or "us"? It happens. I'll write about that next time...
Click here to go on to Part 3.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)