The WMSCOG talks a lot about all the dreadful things that are happening these days--earthquakes, typhoons, fires, floods, hurricanes, epidemics, attacks.... They make it all sound so frightening, and then tell you about a special way you can be protected from all these things--by getting the "seal of God" through celebrating the Passover. After all, they say, whenever the Israelites kept the Passover they were protected, and when they did not keep the Passover, they were not protected.
In my last post I looked at whether the Bible supports that claim about the Passover always providing protection to the Israelites, and it turned out the answer is NO.
But if keeping the Passover does not get you the seal of God, then are there any other clues in the Bible about what does?
How about these verses:
2 Cor. 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Eph. 1:13-14
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed
with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph. 4:30-32
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
From these verses, we see that the Holy Spirit seals us to show we belong to Him when we believe, not after we perform a certain ceremony or finally acheive a perfect life. In Eph. 4, Paul says the people were already sealed before they were able to get rid of bitterness, rage, anger, etc. They weren't perfect, yet they were sealed as belonging to God. That gives me hope.
If the seal is the holy spirit? Then what is the seal the angel from the east brings in revelation 7. As far as I know revelation 7 is about the last days, but the holy spirit was given on the day of Pentecost. So I'm a little confused. Can you explain. Because if I understand your interpretation correctly and the seal of God is the holy spirit, we should not be able to receive it until the last days and until we meet that angel from the east. Please explain.
ReplyDeleteWell, by that reasoning the seal couldn't be the Passover either (as the WMSCOG maintains) since the Passover was kept by the early church, and has also been kept even in more recent times by various groups even before Ahnsahnghong "established" it at his church.
ReplyDeleteYes, the Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2), but that wasn't a one-time occurence. Since then, the Holy Spirit can be seen at work throughout the book of Acts, and throughout the history of the church, even up to the present day.
Since the Bible says that the Holy Spirit puts His seal of ownership on us when we believe, and the Spirit has been working since the second chapter of Acts, then it seems to me that people have been receiving this seal at least since the early church.
Revelation 7:2-3 says,
"Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.""
Does this have to be a new and different seal that is only available in the last days? Or couldn't it be that there are still some more people becoming believers that must get their seal before these plagues begin?
Im not supporting Ahnsahnghong or the World Mission Society Church of Gods interpretation, I just asked a question to your biblical interpretation it kind of doesnt make sense to me. If the Seal of God has been here since the day of pentecost, then why is there need for the angel from the east to bring it in the last days?
ReplyDeleteWhy would you bring something that is already here?
Just want to let you know I've read your comment and will answer as soon as I get some more time. My house is extremely busy today.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm glad you're here and sharing your thoughts.
In the meantime, if my explanation doesn't make sense to you, do you have any ideas of what this seal may be? What do you think?
If you haven't any ideas at all, you might want to do a keyword search of the Bible for "seal" and see what comes up.
mmmm no i rather not make my own interpretations. I dont want to be cursed by God if my interpretation is not correct.if you are not sure just be careful.
ReplyDeleteI dont want to add or take away from the word of God.
I get the impression that you're reluctant to read the Bible on your own because you are afraid of misunderstanding it. Don't be afraid--God gave us the Bible and it is the main way He communicates with us. It's here for ordinary people like us to read so we can understand God better. Here are some tips on how to study the Bible: http://biblecenter.com/bibleclasses/
ReplyDeletehowtostudythebible.htm
But I agree that we must be careful. It is important to safeguard yourself from misunderstandings by having a good knowledge of basic and well-established Biblical truths so that you do not inadvertently contradict them.
But I am not meaning to ask you to make an interpretation of what the seal may be. I just meant to ask if you would look at what the Bible directly says. It takes no "interpreting" to do that. If you search the NIV for "seal" on BibleGateway.com you get 63 hits. Some of those obviously do not apply to the question at hand, so really there are less than 63 to look at. Try it. It will help you see if what I'm saying has merit (and also check on what you may have already been told by someone else).
Now for your question, "If the Seal of God has been here since the day of pentecost, then why is there need for the angel from the east to bring it in the last days? Why would you bring something that is already here?"
Much of the book of Revelation is symbollic. God had to show John these things "that must soon take place" in a way that John could understand. (Rev. 1:1)
This is the first time John has seen the angel with the seal. It could be that the angel has been roaming the earth this whole time with the seal, and God is showing to John what is happening now that the angel is completing the sealing.
I don't see a problem with the seal being something that has already been around. It does not make a contradiction for me.
However, to interpret that the seal must be something new and different--something special to the end times that hasn't been around before, then not only does that cancel out the Holy Spirit as giving the seal to believers, but also the Passover, and the Sabbath. (Yes, some people say the Sabbath is the seal.)
If that were the case, we could not know what the seal is, since it could be nothing that was done in the Bible or church history. And in that case, we shouldn't guess at what it might be because, as you say, we don't want to add or take away from the word of God.
It doesn't necessarily mean something new, it could be something that was here once, it was taken away and then the Angel is bringing it back. The point I'm trying to make is that you bash so much against the church of God(I'm not a member, I'm just looking at the situation from a neutral stand point) but your answer is not confident at all, i mean from your responses i can see that you are not sure that what you are saying is really true what if you are wrong and they are right. What about then? You confidently say that they are wrong, but you are not even sure that you are right.
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 4:5 - Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
You said, "it could be something that was here once, it was taken away and then the Angel is bringing it back."
ReplyDeleteAlright, I could accept that. But if that was it, then it still couldn't be Passover, or the Sabbath, or the Holy Spirit's seal of the believer. All of those have been around, somewhere or another, since the early church.
You said, "I'm not a member, I'm just looking at the situation from a neutral stand point"
Ok, I'll take your word for that, though some of the phrasing you use sounds just like the members I have met. If you are neutral and are seeking the truth, then I hope my blog here helps you in your quest.
You said, "You confidently say that they are wrong, but you are not even sure that you are right."
There are many things in the Bible that are quite clear, and so it is also clear when someone is wrong about those things (such as the way to salvation or who Jesus is).
Other things are not so clear (such as who the rider of the white horse is in Rev. 6:2). It could be one thing or another. It would be foolish of me to say that it is absolutely, for certain one thing, when there is also evidence for another interpretation.
As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:12, "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."
For the WMSCOG to take such an absolute stand on those things that do have alternate possibilities, to the exclusion of any other point of view that has merit--yes, I do think that is wrong of them.
They do that because they think their gods (Ahnsahnghong and "Mother") must be right about everything they say, so there is no room for any other possibility. But if Ahnsahnghong and "Mother" are NOT gods, then their teachings are just like everyone else's--human interpretations.
Perhaps you'd like to look at whether Ahnsahnghong was really God in the flesh?
Again, thank you for being here. I appreciate your comments and questions.
I am not a member, but I do have family members who are part of this church, I don't share in their beliefs, but at the same time our family relations have not deteriorated by them joining this church. On the contrary they have become better people. This is the one reason I come on sites like yours, where people confidently speak against the church of God, yet they don't provide a real answer or alternative.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I can disagree with you is the comment you made:
"There are many things in the Bible that are quite clear, and so it is also clear when someone is wrong about those things (such as the way to salvation or who Jesus is)"
If who Jesus is it's so clear, why is there so many churches? As far as I know there was only one Jesus, and one Church.
If it's so clear to you who Jesus is; can you explain to me the trinity?
Is Jesus God the Father, or is He just the son of God the Father. Every church has it's own interpretation about this, I mean if it was so clear to understand, why is there so my different ways to see that. Obviously is not that clear. Can you please explain?
I
You said, "I am not a member, but I do have family members who are part of this church, I don't share in their beliefs, but at the same time our family relations have not deteriorated by them joining this church."
ReplyDeleteIf your family relationships have not deteriorated then you can consider yourself lucky compared to the others I have met.
You don't share their beliefs, but you don't object to them either? What is your spiritual background? Are you a person of faith, and which faith?
You said, "If it's so clear to you who Jesus is; can you explain to me the trinity?
Is Jesus God the Father, or is He just the son of God the Father. Every church has it's own interpretation about this, I mean if it was so clear to understand, why is there so my different ways to see that."
What is clear is that Jesus is God, not a myth or simply a good person. Others can do a better job at explaining the Trinity than I can in a short comment. Try: http://carm.org/trinity
Not every church has a different interpretation of this. Whether you look at Baptist churches or Presbyterian, Lutheran or Catholic or Orthodox, or any of the other main Christian denominations, they all accept the doctrine of the Trinity. There are relatively few that call themselves Christian that do not believe in the Trinity, such as Mormonism (believes there are many gods) and Jehovah's Witnesses (believe Jesus is not God).
I think if you studied the different denominations you'd find that they are more alike than you realize, when you look at the foundational, major doctrines.
You said, "This is the one reason I come on sites like yours, where people confidently speak against the church of God, yet they don't provide a real answer or alternative."
Alternative interpretations for WMSCOG doctrines? An alternative church? What exactly are you looking for when you come to sites like this? Maybe I can help point you in the right direction to find what you need.
Thank you for your blog, I am finding comfort in it and I hope You can reply. My sister recently joined this cult. We are both college studenTs. My sister says a member came up to her on campus (this girl doesnt even study Here anymore) and invited her, and ever since she's been a member, which is what, roughly 3 months. She hasnt changed that much until recently and it's putting a strain on our relationship. She got baptized within The third meeting and told me (she probably lied to me) that to this church didnt consider baptism a big deal (lies, since Ive googled it now and thats one of their main beliefs, that youll be saved by being baptized) yet they were asking her if she was going to do it and within the second time they mentioned it, she did it. I didnt think the baptism was a big deal myself until i mentioned it to a ftiedn of mine, who says that it was fast and a committ which I agree now. I wonder how one gets baptized Under this church? Anyway, I have a lot to say and questions but I feel I'll write too much. I just dont want to lose my sister. I was wondering if yours has left yet and if she hasnt how long has it been since she's been in it and roughly what age she is? You sound.like.such a reasonable and rational person. I believe your sister must be too. The same, only until recently I have seen how greatlyintelligent my sister is and the potential she has. So I dont know how she has been brainwashed and is believing these people. This stupid cult. My friend says that she entered it and that she will be able to get out of.it.on her own, just like you said with your sister. But what if she needs help, what if youra does too? And they wont ever get out of it? My sister says she wont tell my mom (my mom is catholic, but not too religious, yet has crosses (something that disturbs my sister now) and prays here and there) until she herself grows strong faith. What does that even.mean, doesnt make sense to me that she is following these teachings as the one and only true way, when she doesnt full heartedly believe it. Yet she defends it. Shes changed so much, and this just makes me hate religion, although I knowit is being close minded of me, and this is a cult. Btw, do these people try to get a lot.of.money from their members? I dont know how much.my sister has given, or if she does tithe. What is the importance of tithe? I know it claims.that a percentage has to be given to God, but I feel churched abuse this. And that some members of different churches themselves only care about giving tithe and dont care about their other financial responsibilities, including those of their family and children. Which brings me to How this cult puts a strain on family relationships and I font.know if its on the website or their beliefs, but on wiki it says you must forsake your family. What does this mean? Again, thank you for your blog.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing. Some of the questions you've asked will be answered as you observe your sister and listen to what she tells you of her experience. My sister has been involved in this organization for around 7 years, and yes she is a caring and intelligent person. But even caring and intelligent people can be influenced by mind control techniques.
Delete